Monday, August 22, 2011

Thomas Jefferson

If there's one thing that I can count on, it's LB Bork distorting the words of the Founding Fathers for his own gain.

Recently, I encountered a post among a deluge of scam-spam that I remember seeing before, but never noticed the Thomas Jefferson quote. I'm certain that I have posted it on my blog before, but here it is in full. (And yes, RJ now repeats himself twice in a single post. It's quite pathetic.)


A Disease called "ENTITLEMENTS" (Deemed Socialist)


Date: 2011-08-20, 8:55AM EDT
Reply to: comm-kv43p-2556475382@craigslist.org [Errors when replying to ads?]


A Disease called "ENTITLEMENTS" (deemed to be socialist)


Are you Tired of the government and its endless giveaway programs?

Well, you MUST READ the latest PAC E Letter presentation, A Disease called Entitlements...

Things that are controlled by "The State" are deemed to be socialist. In a sense, the government acts as a henchman to impose things on people that would otherwise be unlawful. A thing called private law is how this is accomplished.

Long before our time Thomas Jefferson stated this about the socialist state . . . "I predict future happiness for American if they can prevent the government from wasting the labor of the people under the pretense of taking care of them"

To the socialist mind, it matters not that the system is destined to fail. The socialist will keep contracting with government and those who expect the free ride will keep taking until there is nothing left. People who get funding from government, be they employees, corporation, or welfare recipients matters not. There is little or no cause to do the right thing in the eyes of these people. It is all about "me" with these types. They will take until there is nothing left to take.

After All, such people are "entitled" are they not?

Continue . . . .
http://www.pacgroups.us:80/eletter/post/NL_0511.php

__________________________________

A Disease called "ENTITLEMENTS" (deemed to be socialist)

Are you Tired of the government and its endless giveaway programs?

Well, you MUST READ the latest PAC E Letter presentation, A Disease called Entitlements...

Things that are controlled by "The State" are deemed to be socialist. In a sense, the government acts as a henchman to impose things on people that would otherwise be unlawful. A thing called private law is how this is accomplished.

Long before our time Thomas Jefferson stated this about the socialist state . . . "I predict future happiness for American if they can prevent the government from wasting the labor of the people under the pretense of taking care of them"

To the socialist mind, it matters not that the system is destined to fail. The socialist will keep contracting with government and those who expect the free ride will keep taking until there is nothing left. People who get funding from government, be they employees, corporation, or welfare recipients matters not. There is little or no cause to do the right thing in the eyes of these people. It is all about "me" with these types. They will take until there is nothing left to take.

After All, such people are "entitled" are they not?

Continue . . . .
http://www.pacgroups.us:80/eletter/post/NL_0511.php



  • Location: Deemed Socialist
  • it's NOT ok to contact this poster with services or other commercial interests
PostingID: 2556475382
I'm tired of paying for things and services I use everyday! Fucking society, how does it work?

Now, let's take a look at this sentence and throw it into Google:
Long before our time Thomas Jefferson stated this about the socialist state . . . "I predict future happiness for American if they can prevent the government from wasting the labor of the people under the pretense of taking care of them"
Firstly, it's Americans, not "American". Second, this is one of Jefferson's oft paraphrased quotes. If one were to blindly Google the above, it would pull up a gigantic mess of right-wing blogs, forum signatures, and quote collections, all of which contain some variation of this phrase with no citations whatsoever. So, to set the record straight, I have the original quote and source right here - underlined and bolded for emphasis:


"A NOISELESS COURSE"
To Thomas Cooper
Washington, Nov. 29, 1802
1802112

   DEAR SIR, -- Your favor of Oct 25 was received in due time, and I thank you for the long extract you took the trouble of making from Mr. Stone's letter. Certainly the information it communicates as to Alexander kindles a great deal of interest in his existence, and strong spasms of the heart in his favor. Tho his means of doing good are great, yet the materials on which he is to work are refractory. Whether he engages in








-1110-


private correspondences abroad, as the King of Prussia did much, his grandmother sometimes, I know not; but certainly such a correspondence would be very interesting to those who are sincerely anxious to see mankind raised from their present abject condition. It delights me to find that there are persons who still think that all is not lost in France: that their retrogradation from a limited to an unlimited despotism, is but to give themselves a new impulse. But I see not how or when. The press, the only tocsin of a nation, is compleatly silenced there, and all means of a general effort taken away. However, am willing to hope, as long as anybody will hope with me; and am entirely persuaded that the agitations of the public mind advance its powers, and that at every vibration between the points of liberty and despotism, something will be gained for the former. As men become better informed, their rulers must respect them the more. I think you will be sensible that our citizens are fast returning, from the panic into which they were artfully thrown to the dictates of their own reason; and I believe the delusions they have seen themselves hurried into will be useful as a lesson under similar attempts on them in future. The good effects of our late fiscal arrangements will certainly tend to unite them in opinion, and in a confidence as to the views of their public functionaries, legislative & executive. The path we have to pursue is so quiet that we have nothing scarcely to propose to our Legislature. A noiseless course, not meddling with the affairs of others, unattractive of notice, is a mark that society is going on in happiness. If we can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people, under the pretence of taking care of them, they must become happy. Their finances are now under such a course of application as nothing could derange but war or federalism. The gripe of the latter has shown itself as deadly as the jaws of the former. Our adversaries say we are indebted to their providence for the means of paying the public debt. We never charged them with the want of foresight in providing money, but with the misapplication of it after they have levied it. We say they raised not only enough, but too much; and that after giving back the surplus we do more with a part than they did with the whole.
   Your letter of Nov 18 is also received. The places of midshipman








-1111-


are so much sought that (being limited) there is never a vacancy. Your son shall be set down for the 2d, which shall happen; the 1st being anticipated. We are not long generally without vacancies happening. As soon as he can be appointed you shall know it. I pray you to accept assurances of my great attachment and respect.

If you want more, it is listed three times in The Jeffersonian Cyclopedia, under the topics:
  • 2358. ECONOMY, Happiness and.            (p. 271)
  • 2847. EXTRAVAGANCE, Governmental.  (p. 320)
  • 4315. LABOR, Protecting.                          (p. 459)
Feel free to read his other quotes and fact check quotes you have encountered in the wild.

Putting the alleged quote and the original quote together...
Alleged:
I predict future happiness for American if they can prevent the government from wasting the labor of the people under the pretense of taking care of them
Original:
If we can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people, under the pretence of taking care of them, they must become happy.
...we can see the difference. The alleged quote appears to be derived from the original, but rearranged and with "predict future happiness" and "American" where it didn't exist before, "labor" instead of labors, and "they" instead of we. It is almost as if the original quote was translated into another language, and translated back into English.

It's hard to attribute this bastardization to malice - it's everywhere, and remarkably not the only variation around. My bet is that the quote came from a political chain mail and nobody ever bothered to check it's accuracy. Certainly not LB Bork. (Hey, I can use this and skip basic research!)

The meaning of the quote is best ascertained from context. In Jefferson's letter, he is not talking about the problems of socialism and the welfare state. He's talking about debt, foreign policy, and the economy. The US was deeply in debt at the time and Jefferson believed that taking a silent approach (meaning little to no congressional activity on the topic) would be easier on the economy, as the people were too afraid to participate due to their fears of some country attempting to collect.

Also remember Thomas Jefferson's stance on education. He's not against public programs, and while he never lived to see the modern welfare state, I don't think he would have a problem with it.

Monday, August 8, 2011

The Debt Ceiling and LB Bork

RJ's back spamming again. I'm not exactly frustrated by it, as his posts are flagged down easily. I just don't understand why he even bothers anymore. It's not like the people who are interested are going to spend their money anyway.

However, there was this one post that caught my attention:

((( "Debt Ceiling" )) (Share with friends and family... Our fut)


Date: 2011-07-29, 9:35AM EDT
Reply to: comm-rn88d-2519193780@craigslist.org [Errors when replying to ads?]



Share with friends and family... Our future depends on it. ("Debt Ceiling)





Greetings from the Coalition:


This eletter on NMG Forum :
http://www.notmygovernment.us/forum/NMG.pl?num=1311619718


As you may know there has been talk about the "Debt Ceiling" in the news
as of late. In exploring the Debt Ceiling issue The Red Amendment (TRA) had
laid the foundation for it over ten years ago. You may listen to the
reading done from TRA by Phil Pozderac on his July 23, 2011 broadcast on
the Republic Broadcast Network.


You may download the show in MP3 here :


http://www.notmygovernment.us/mp3/20110723_Pozderac_1.mp3
http://www.notmygovernment.us/mp3/20110723_Pozderac_2.mp3


You may download the "excerpts" from The Red Amendment that establish the
details of the Debt Ceiling at :


http://www.pacinlaw.org/debtceiling


Visit The Republic Broadcast Network at :
http://www.republicbroadcasting.org


Share with friends and family... Our future depends on it.


Godspeed to all, LB Bork


<><><>


The Red Amendment
So many people claim to be waking up; however in their rush to find
another way have often found themselves latching onto the first thing that
has the ring of truth. They do this only to find out after much money and
time has been invested they had no standing in-law. This is due to the
lack of research an individual has done prior their investment, people need
to question all things, to verify all claims made not just a few things and
except blindly the rest as fact outlined in the law.


The Red Amendment (TRA) has been providing the facts in-law for nearly 10
years. The Coalition has never asked for a dime other than the cost of
printing the book. But yet people would rather spend thousands of dollars
on a whimsical lie filled with deceit, instead of learning the truthful
facts that the law has provide us. If you have not yet read or received
your copy please do so today, it will save you thousands of dollars and
time following the agents of deceit. To get your copy of The Red Amendment
simply follow this link: http://www.redamendment.net/home


_______________


People's Awareness Coalition :
Separating the Wheat from the Chaff since 1998


Try the PAC Browser, courtesy of PAC Groups:
http://www.pacgroups.us/pac


Get and share the Island Maker's Project Lexicon:
http://www.islandmakers.us/implex


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


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To subscribe to the PAC Groups E Letter,
click on the below link and follow the instructions:
www.pacgroups.us/subscribe


______________________


People's Awareness Coalition
All Rights Reserved without the United States






  • Location: Share with friends and family... Our fut
  • it's NOT ok to contact this poster with services or other commercial interests
PostingID: 2519193780
Heh, All Rights Reserved without United States. Good luck with that. I wonder what it is like being extradited to Bork's fiefdom over copyright infringement aka Thursday at Moe's BBQ pit?

Anyway, before I clicked on the links, I had a pretty good idea of how LB Bork was going to sell his ideas to impressionable people. I expect him to denounce Redemption theories.

The first link goes to the notmygovernment.us forum post, which is a carbon copy of the CL post. The next two links are mp3's, which I have no interest in listening to. Chances are that it follows the same radio format, announcer asks who and what Bork does, and Bork responds in a rather inarticulate manner. After that, they shoot the shit about the 14th Amendment.

The fourth link is a PDF containing excerpts of The Red Amendment pertaining to the Debt Ceiling. The document is not secure, which I find odd because Bork's current trend is to update and secure. Either way, I'm not complaining, getting text out of a secured PDF is trivial work.

I'm not going to spend too much time analyzing this document. There are too many things that are wrong with it and I'm worn out. Bork really has nothing to offer that hasn't already been said by other conspiracy theorists  before him. It's no wonder that Quatloos members don't take him seriously.

From what I have been hearing, Bork is going after Redemption victims. This document must have been released as a part of the new sales drive.

METADATA
  • Title: The Red Amendment ©
  • Author: LB Bork lb@pacinlaw.org
  • Subject:  Debt Ceiling Foundation
  • Keywords: "Debt Ceiling, 14th Amendment Section 4, The Red Amendment, Government, Political, Constitution, Law, Nationality, Status, Insurgent Government, Rebellion, Fraud."
  • Category: Debt Ceiling, Government, Political, Constitution, Law, Nationality
  • Company: PRIORG
  • SourceModified:  D:20110722185828

TEXTDUMP


Page 1

© 14th Amendment in Law Exposé
DEBT CEILING FOUNDATION, FROM CHAPTER THREE, 2007 EDITION, Authored by LB Bork
CHAPTER THREE: FOURTEENTH AMENDMENT EXPOSED
3.0 THE RED AMENDMENT
Thus far the first reference to RED that the Fourteenth Amendment achieves is believed to have been proven, which of course is: COMMUNISM. Moreover, a conspiracy has been exposed to you; its existence in America which you never suspected, much less even considered.


Accordingly, the main purpose of the Fourteenth Amendment was to impose the doctrines of Communism on America via a de facto governmental system. However, said amendment was just the main vehicle, as several other measures have also been used to permeate the debased political doctrines of the Communist Manifesto. The infamous amendment also formulates the principal purpose of the Manifesto that was established by Marx; that purpose is to create perpetual debt, this being the second reference that has been made to RED.


3.7 FOURTEENTH AMENDMENT: SECTION 4
Now we will look at Section 4 of the infamous Fourteenth Amendment.
Section 4 has a very complex—but yet simple—premise in the seemingly no telling language. It deals with the purpose of what has been orchestrated and has actually transpired:
  •Totally indebtedness of the United States and ITS citizens;
  •Keeping Americans in planned and perpetual debt.
This section was of purpose to benefit the World Bankers that own the private Federal Reserve System. The main goal of these deceivers is to create a force of people that are regarded as Human Resources. The Federal Reserve book-entry currency system works on Income Tax. Book-entry currency system means that the ones that own the private Federal Reserve System essentially own the presses that print the money. The money is printed when it is needed and the United States pays the interest on it as pursuant to a book-entry. THEY, the Neo Money Changers,1 are lending nothing of value, but yet make a profit. The debt is never going to be paid in this system. The Neo-Money Changers are making profit off issuing paper.


The rebels and/or denizens must pay the Income Tax: Communist Manifesto, Plank 2. If income tax would not be taken out of circulation, hyper-inflation would occur. Similar controlling factors also hold true in the Federal Reserve controlling the interest rates for lending. This currency


1 As compared to the Scriptural money-changers, THEY are the modern day ones, but really are the same ones.
The RED Amendment || Debt Ceiling Foundation Page 1 OF 10
Ah yes, the old international bankers cabal.

In Bork's crazy world, the Federal Reserve is private and doesn't have the right to print money. Yawn.

Page 2

system induces the rebels (i.e. economic slaves) to continue working to increase production to create corporate profit for the Neo-Money Changers and the Elite. Accordingly, it benefits the World Elite and the general banking system. If perpetual debt was not instituted people would not work as they would have sufficient provisions by God to survive on. The wedge between man and God has to been done by these people to create a tacit slave force.
Such principles can be found in Communist writings (i.e. their training manuals) such as: A Synthesis of the Russian Textbook on Psychopolitics.2 In this book the Communists—in reality the Capitalists-the World Elite—set forth that if man were to enjoy plenty he would no longer work, thus he would not create profit; thus is not a valuable HUMAN RESOURCE.3
This is why Communist principles must destroy Biblical principles –
Materialism is not in harmony with the Word of God.
Keeping all such factors aforesaid in mind, you will hardly believe what is actually involved in Section 4. Said section is as follows; it is broken-up into two sections for easier clarification:

“The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned.

But neither the United States nor any State shall assume or pay any debt or obligation incurred in aid of insurrection or rebellion against the United States, or any claim for the loss or emancipation of any slave; but all such debts, obligations and claims shall be held illegal and void.”
3.7.1 United States Explained
One must remember that the several States of the Union are performing as if they are offended governments due to their rebelling citizens. Such governments are operating in a dual capacity; as referenced, they are wearing two hats, so to speak (refer back to Part 3.6.3.1).
The several States, which make-up the State of the Union, can be referred to severally or jointly. That is to say, the “whimsical” term known as the “United States” can mean the following:
1. In collective sense: the separate and many governments of the American republics;
2. The State of the Union, which is constructed from the several American States (i.e. de jure), which before the Fourteenth Amendment was styled as the United States or the United States of America;
3. A private corporation or organization that handles certain affairs.


In reference to Number 1, as stated herein, such governments are acting in belligerency due to the orchestrated rebellion set-up by operation of law4 under Section 2.


In reference to Number 2, the federation government—i.e. the United States—operates under the premise of public law under the original Constitutional system. This public law—which is created under the premise of international compact between the several American republics—is not true public law and is really quasi-public law; it is actually private international law.5 After


2 The manual appeared at Eugene Debs Labor School, Milwaukee Wisconsin: Available from PAC.
3 Note that this has replaced Personnel Department in past years. Why?. . Coincidence? I think not: Welcome to the language of the New World Order, which is actually Corporate Servitude… “You are a slave, Neo.”
4 OPERATION OF LAW. This term expresses the manner in which rights, and sometimes liabilities, devolve upon a person by the mere application to the particular transaction of the established rules of law, without the act or co-operation of the party himself. Black’s Law Dictionary, Sixth Edition Deluxe
5 PRIVATE INTERNATIONAL LAW. A name used by some writers to indicate that branch of law which is now more commonly called “Conflict of Laws”. CONFLICT OF LAWS. Inconsistency or difference between the laws of different
The RED Amendment || Debt Ceiling Foundation Page 2 OF 10

Page 3
passage of the Fourteenth Amendment, in the sense of public law de jure, the “State of the Union” is more aptly to be referred to as “The United States of America”.


In reference to Number 3—under operation of law—the passage of the Fourteenth Amendment just created another layer of private international law of which the new citizens of the several American republics could now participate in. The federal government was no longer just for the several American states; it was now a ‘national legislature for citizens of the United States’.


As explained: each man and woman of each of the several Union republics—by rebellion—may contract into this new system of private law established by the United States. Because this insurgent system of law is limited to the participants, the United States fundamentally shifts into an “organization mode”. This de facto system is that of a private nature over that of the de jure public corporation of the several American States. It should be noted that the citizen contract can be presumed by not terminating the de facto status, i.e. contract by silence.


3.7.1.1 Legal Structure of the United States
If we examine the existence of the United States, or the United States of America, we find that it owes its existence to a charter. A charter is described as: a grant by a sovereign to give a certain group of people of a nation a certain amount of power.6 In contraposition somewhat, a constitution is established by the people of a nation. The peoples of the states in this Union are collectively the sovereign power of the respective states in the Union. Their representatives, referred to as the people, contract for them in Congress. The Constitution, an extension of the Articles of Confederation,7 was—in essence—both a charter and a constitution.
Accordingly, the charter, known as the Constitution for the United States of America, was a full limitation of power delegated to the people that were elected to serve the Union. These powers, which included special matters that were transferred to the State of the Union in manner of some inherent sovereign rights of the American republics under the law of nations, were limited by the document itself. An example of such transfer or relinquishment of rights was the ability of each State to coin its own money; another is: handling offenses under the law of nations, which in fact, the United States is an international mediator, between the States and internationally.


Simply put: The Constitution for the United States of America is nothing more than a contract.
Now, the “organization” that is known as the United States and its organs, the insurgent states, sanctioned by federal citizens, have supplanted the de jure national governments8 under the general premise international law via the Fourteenth Amendment. As a matter of law the United States has interfered with the sovereign rights of the American republics and forced ITS will on said republics; hence, the original “Charter” or “Constitution” that was granted by the sovereign nations has been fundamentally overwritten; therefore, the participants—which are the ones that are members of this organization, i.e. citizens of the United States—are liable for the actions of the organization, the United States. Their—the Fourteenth Amendment States and the United States—actions are reciprocal due to the actions of the participants and/or members.
Hence, this new entity—created by the Fourteenth Amendment—is more aptly referred to as the United States rather than The United States of America. In sense, the language of the United States of America should more aptly be referred to as the de jure hat, so to speak.
states or countries, arising in the case of persons who have acquired rights, incurred obligation, injuries or damages, or made contracts, within the territory of two or more jurisdictions. Black’s Law, Sixth Edition Deluxe
6 Reference: CHARTER, Black’s Law Dictionary, Sixth Edition Deluxe
7 The Articles of Confederation was a compact of the several American states that was in effect until the present Constitution replaced it. Reference: Black’s Law Dictionary, Sixth Edition Deluxe.
8 NATIONAL GOVERNMENT. The government of a whole nation, as distinguished from that of a local or territorial division of the nation, and also as distinguished from that of a confederation. Black’s Law, Fourth Edition
The RED Amendment || Debt Ceiling Foundation Page 3 OF 10
Page 4
However, the two entities co-exist and operate as one, in a confusing and deceptive manner;9 again, the quasi-public law of the original system is preserved. As stated herein, the United States government is not really de facto because it is not a true national government; that is to say: it does not represent a nation; wherefore it can do whatever it wants; which would include creating a nation or an alternate or private body politic under the color of law. Well, it appears that is what people who established this unconscionable chicanery think, anyway.


The foregoing brief explanation on the federal government was established so that you have a better understanding of what is set forth and accomplished in Section 4.


3.7.2 Language of Section 4
Accordingly, as in the other three sections of the Fourteenth Amendment, Section 4 must also be broken down so that the entities may be referenced. The sections are interpreted as follows:
1.“The validity of the public debt of the United States (new federal government), authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned.
2. But neither the United States (reconstructed federal government in so-called emergency operation) nor any State (de facto State, i.e. a Fourteenth Amendment State / Colony) shall assume or pay any debt or obligation incurred in aid of insurrection or rebellion against the United States (the several Union States de jure), or any claim for the loss or emancipation of any slave; but all such debts, obligations and claims shall be held illegal and void.”


3.7.3 Examination of Section 4
Now, let us go forward in a more in-depth examination of Section 4:
The validity of the public debt of the United States (the de facto federal government), authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned.


Take note that “the public debt. . . shall not be questioned” in the first sentence and clause. This clause essentially radiates or openly defines the force of the federal government de facto.


3.7.4 Debt by Force
Who may not question the debt. . . the states or people in rebellion?
This particular clause can be referenced in Black’s Law Dictionary, Sixth Edition Deluxe:
“Such a government might be more aptly denominated a “government of paramount force,” being maintained by active military power against the rightful authority of an established and lawful government; and obeyed in civil matters by private citizens. They are usually administered directly by military authority, but they may be administered, also, by civil authority, supported more or less by military force.” 10
In other words: no one will question what they are doing—using COVERT FORCE—to initiate the servitude! But how do they keep this Quiet War going without anyone knowing about it?


3.7.4.1 Insurgent Payoffs
The insurgents are government officers. Note that there are Pension and Bounties for payment in suppressing the rebellion. Below are relevant definitions from American Heritage Dictionary:
9 In Scripture, it is noted that Satan is the author of confusion. This system is purely of a Satanic nature.
10 Thorington v Smith, 8 Wall. U.S. 1 (1868). Again, the Justice sneakily states what is transpiring in his opinion.
The RED Amendment || Debt Ceiling Foundation Page 4 OF 10

Page 5

1. Pension: A sum of money paid by way of patronage. Support, encouragement, or championship, as of a person, an institution, an event, or a cause, from a patron.
2. Bounty: A reward, inducement, or payment, especially one given by a government for acts deemed beneficial to the state.* [ *The Communist State, perhaps? ]
3. Suppressing: mask, bury, cloak, conceal, cover up, hush up, hide, keep in, shield, stifle, veil, disguise, shroud. . .


Observing the evilness of the other sections of this amendment, do you suppose that the use of SUPPRESS means CONCEAL or BURY the truth to perpetuate the scam?


Now, from the above definitions you might construe that THEY have been taking money out of the pockets of Americans—by way of slave labor—and paying off particular people to keep this whole Fourteenth Amendment scheme quiet. Is that what you get out of this clause?


Think about it. And you question why politicians—not statesmen11—seem to be so corrupt and will not listen to Americans, sorry: “taxpayers”.12 This fact especially applies when it comes to matters that involve government operations and the seemingly disregard for the Constitution.


Applicably, one could honestly refer to Section 4 of the amendment as the “Corruption Clause”. The question is who exactly are these people that are getting paid off?


3.7.4.2 Debt Paid
Now we will move on to a more in-depth look at Part or Clause 2. Again, it is as follows:
“But neither the United States (the de facto federal government) nor any State (de facto) shall assume or pay any debt or obligation incurred in aid of insurrection or rebellion against the United States (the de jure states), or any claim for the loss or emancipation of any slave; but all such debts, obligations and claims shall be held illegal and void.”


3.7.4.3 De Facto Will Not Pay Debt
Note what it states in Part 2 above. Do you understand why the Congress of the United States lets the public debt seemingly keep escalating and fails to pay it? It is simple: Section 4 of the Fourteenth Amendment instructs that the de facto entities do not have to pay it!


The rebellion is against the United States de jure (see Part 2). The rebels (i.e. United States citizens) have unwittingly agreed to have the perpetual debt that the Federal Reserve System creates and operates on; moreover, the states cannot question it (see Part 1). And as the rebels are in servitude under legal fiction, they are slaves to this perpetual debt.


3.7.4.4 De Jure Does Not Pay Debt
Now to continue on this section: Presented is some evidence that the statement made in Part 1 above imposes the de jure government (Union) with the public debt of the rebels:
“The distinguishing characteristic of such a government is that adherents to it in war against the government de jure. . . under certain limitations (emphasis
11 POLITICIAN. 1.a. One who is actively involved in politics, especially party politics. b. One who holds or seeks a political office. 2. One who seeks personal or partisan gain, often by scheming and maneuvering: “Mothers may still want their favorite sons to grow up to be President, but . . . they do not want them to become politicians in the process” (John Fitzgerald Kennedy). 3. One who is skilled or experienced in the science or administration of government. STATESMAN.1. A man who is a leader in national or international affairs. 2. A male political leader regarded as a disinterested promoter of the public good. American Heritage Dictionary, 1998
12 TITLE 26 USC § 7701(a). Definitions. (14) Taxpayer. The term “taxpayer” means any person subject to any internal revenue tax. See also, U.S. person: Title 26 USC § 7701(a)(30). A citizen of the United States.
The RED Amendment || Debt Ceiling Foundation Page 5 OF 10

Page 6

added), obligations assumed by it in behalf of the country or otherwise will, in general, be respected by the government de jure when restored.”


In regard to the debt, this author does not think so!. . . Why Do You Ask!?
Please reference Part 1 above, it is distinct that this references the de facto government. Why? The de facto entity is the only government that can make law during the insurrections that are in the several States. Remember that this governmental system has been seated by the rebelling citizens de facto. This implies that it is an unfound government; however it gains its power from an ignorant voting public. Furthermore, note in Part 2 above all such debts are illegal and void; thus in legal effect: The debt does not really exist!13 But as long as the rebellion[s] that are in place in the several American republics continue the debt shall not be questioned!


In other words, as long as America is enjoying Communism it will stay in perpetual servitude.


3.7.4.5 The Slave Clause
It has been established above that the debts from the several de facto entities are Illegal and Void; however, now the “Slave Clause” and its legal fictions must be explained.
It has been established above that by voting you are committing a crime, which then puts you in silent (tacit) servitude, see the definitions noted in Chapter 2.5.1. Actually, you are committing a crime so it is really willing servitude, pursuant to the new Thirteenth Amendment. Although you are not duly convicted by jury—as the amendment prescribes—the judge or people getting the pension and bounty will take silent notice of such fact and condemn you without such trial.


Accordingly, if you are participating in the rebellion the income tax is mandatory, not voluntary, like most freedomists believe. That is why it appears that the law is not being followed. The law that is written—which includes the regulations—is quasi-public law of the United States, i.e. this is special law applicable to Fourteenth Amendment citizens. The legislature—i.e. Congress—of the private members—the rebels—are required to participate under Public Policy.(See footnote 122)


3.7.5 Ashwander Rule
Pursuant to these instant matters, if you studied enough case law you would know the Supreme Court rules of thumb that are referred to as the Ashwander Rule.14 The principal rule is:
• The Court will not pass upon the constitutionality of a statute at the instance of one who has availed himself of its benefits.
This is just simply based on a Common Law maxim:
CUJUS EST COMMODUM EJUS DEBET ESSE INCOMMODUM.
He who receives the benefit should also bear the disadvantage.


The rule explained: The courts will not come out and tell you that you are a slave (see pensions and bounties), and that there is a Quiet War setup under the Fourteenth Amendment. This is a quick way to dispose of a case without anyone the wiser to what really happened.


As stated herein, they put forth stealthy opinions—in other words—they kind of beat around the bush, so to speak. Moreover, one should note that courts are like computers, they will only give data of which data they are fed. In other words, if someone argues the wrong issue of law, which is done consistently—mainly due to not understanding the Fourteenth Amendment—it will
13 However it is the rebellion of the voters. Maybe they are paying for it through the taking of land and unconstitutional taxation. Simply put this is a formula for covert theft by the enemy: The UK. It is all a set-up!
14 Ashwander v T.V.A., 297 U.S. 288. This was a major case during the FDR reign, i.e. the New Deal president.
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Page 7

base its decision on what is presented—or to not disclose the real truth—the court will find the easiest way to dismiss the action on some error or just deny jurisdiction, a typical measure.
So the Ashwander Rule basically applies as follows:
• If you are voting, or taking any benefit from a statute, you cannot claim constitutional protected rights because you are a person being punished in the Quiet Wars against the de jure states of the Union.
Moreover, people fail to understand that the so-called Bill of Rights is Roman Civil Law.


3.7.5.1 Roman Civil Law
You must remember the whole statutory scheme is of a de facto “Police Power/State” nature; a Penal Code—punishment if you will. Ultimately the code in this system is Roman Civil Law.
Most actions that are under this insurgent system that are presented to the Supreme Court are grounded in the de facto citizen status, i.e. a comparable to Capitis Deminutio Maxima. Such citizens have privileges that are granted by the so-called Bill of Rights. The first “Ten Articles in Amendment” are being used in a perverse manner for the rebels in mode of a Roman Civil Law system.15 Note that under this system the state and federal governments claim immunity. This stance of immunity from suit imports the doctrine of: “The King (Lord) Can Do No Wrong.”


3.7.5.2 Federal Government is Foreign
In the original constitutional system, people had little connection to the federal government. The first Ten Articles in Amendment were to protect the several states from the federal government. This had been firmly established in the case of Barron v. City of Baltimore.16 The statement of the court that avowed the first Ten Articles in Amendment did not apply to state citizens is:
“The Constitution was ordained and established by the people of the United States for themselves, for their own government, and not for the government of individual States. Each State established a constitution for itself, and in that constitution provided such limitations and restrictions on the powers of its particular government as its judgment dictated. The people of the United States17 framed such a government for the United States as they supposed best adapted to their situation, and best calculated to promote their interests. The powers they conferred on this government were to be exercised by itself, and the limitations on power, if expressed in general terms, are naturally and necessarily applicable to the government created by the instrument. They are limitations of power granted in the instrument itself, not of distinct governments framed by different persons and for different purposes.”


Did you notice what was stated? The United States Constitution was created by the Founding Fathers for their interests. These interests are believed to be that of having the States act as constitutors18 for the obligations they had in regard to the debts of the united States.


That evidence aside, the several States are still currently deemed foreign to the United States as found in Title 22 USC § 2659, which is found in the Title called FOREIGN RELATIONS:
15 See information in Chapter 3.4.2.2 Property Rights.
16 See this case authority, 32 U.S. 243 (1833)
17 As seen in the Preamble of the Constitution, the phrase “We the People” is in reference to the men who signed the document. Appropriately, Blackstone, a jurist, can be quoted as stating the following about the phrase “the people” in his many commentaries: The popular leaders, who in all ages have called themselves “the people”.
18 CONSTITUTOR. In civil law. One who, by a simple agreement, becomes responsible for the payment of another’s debts. Inst. 4, 6, 9. Black’s Law Dictionary, Fourth Edition
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Page 8

• The Secretary of State shall procure from time to time such of the statutes of the several States as may not be in his office.


The de facto Congress has set forth the several States are foreign. This is the de facto system masking to be de jure. Again, this is from a code title that is called Foreign Relations.
These de jure principles still apply for state nationals under the insurrection. That is to say, the United States is a foreign government in regard to the states that are under insurrection; refer back to Chapter 3.3 where the Expatriation Act goes over the states as being that of foreign.


3.8 EXPATRIATION STIPULATIONS


Now we will go into the emancipation—i.e. expatriation stipulations—clause which is found in Section 4 of the Fourteenth Amendment. Most would think that this clause is in reference to the emancipation of slaves during the so-called Civil War, however it is not. You must remember that people who throw off their political allegiance to their states also throw off their unalienable and natural rights that are protected under the original constitutional system. As a matter of law these people have become wards of the State under doctrine of Parens Patriæ,19 which literally means: parent of the country. It refers to people under a legal disability who are under the care of the State. In reference to such, these people are not claiming to be sui juris.


3.8.1 Sui Juris
A person20 that is sui juris is:
1. One who has all the rights to which a freeman is entitled; one who is not under the power of another, as a slave, a minor, and the like. To make a valid contract, a person must, in general, be sui juris. Bouvier’s Law Dictionary, 1856
2. Every one of full age is presumed to be sui juris. Of full capacity. In his own right; capable of entering into a contract. Ballentine’s Law Dictionary


Note that both definitions have the element of: Contract. Consequently all such persons of such nature are not considered to be that of a sui juris status because they are under the power of another. Now let us consider some relevant elements attached to United States citizenship to see if you are: Of the Like. To see that you are or are not: “of the like” and “not under the power of another”, in review please answer the following questions:
1. Are you a United States Citizen and are you willing to be one?
2. Do you have a Social Security Number and do you plan to take benefits?


If you answered yes to either one of the above questions: You are not actually sui juris; and, you are under the guardianship of the foreign state known as the: United States.


Do you remember when you turned 18 your parents, school, and government leaders made you fully aware that you had a 30 day window to make the educated choice to be a dependent of the insurgent corporate system or become fully sui juris under God? NOT LIKELY!


As you have voluntarily—through deception—elected to be a citizen and national of the United States—thus having to take a Social Security Number based on law of the "federal" nation—you went from being a child of your parents to being a child of the government[s]. In legal principle and definition you are considered a vassal and the United States is your Lord:
Vassal, n. 1. A person who held land from a feudal lord and received protection in return for homage and allegiance. 2. A bondman; a slave. 3. A subordinate or dependent.
19 See case of: Late Corporation of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints v U.S., 136 U.S. 478 (1889)
20 There are different levels or statuses of persons. See Footnote 110 for more information.


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Unbeknownst to you, this was your first firm contract when you reached age of majority. You solidified the feudal citizenship. In law, it is called tacit acquiescence. It does not matter if you are voting or not, you are still a subordinate child of the government[s]. You are in the line to receive the benefits: Social Security, Voting, etc. It really does not matter that you do not intend to take the benefits. . . You could take them, which under law is the same as taking them.


Here are some more relevant definitions from Webster’s and American Heritage Dictionaries:
1. Father, n. 1. A member of the senate in ancient Rome (author-emphasis added). 2. Usage. To act or serve as a father to (a child). 4. To acknowledge responsibility for.
2. Emancipate, v. 1. to set free (a slave, etc.); release from bondage. 2. to free from restraint or influence, as of convention. 3. in law, to release from a father’s control.
3. Convention, n. 2. An agreement between states, sides, or military forces, especially an agreement dealing with a specific subject, such as the treatment of prisoners of war.
Are you ready to enter into a convention with the United States of America and the Insurgents?


3.8.2 Expatriation / Emancipation
The reference to convention may become more apparent when you read: INTERNAL WAR[S]. This is where we will examine how an American is considered an Enemy of the State in more detail. For now though in context to the Slave Clause and in relation to your emancipation. . .
In regard to the convention:


When you expatriate from the Communist country created under the Fourteenth Amendment, the federal government is no longer your guardian (father); and, you are a neutral in the Quiet War. In other words: You remove yourself from the “Insurgent Democracy” and claim your political allegiance to one of the republic[s].
For you to properly be emancipated from this system some things required would be:


1. You cannot vote, because it makes you a combatant (slave).
2. You cannot get loans from the Federal Government.
3. You cannot participate in the Social Security program.
4. You cannot file personal Bankruptcy.
5. You cannot pay personal Income Tax. . . and so on and so on.


If you are doing any of these you cannot CLAIM or declare your federal emancipation because you are participating and taking benefit from the de facto system. Participating in this socialistic, communistic system requires a man and woman to have a United States person status.


Indeed, the Slave Clause in Section 4 is clandestine language. Your emancipation (expatriation) will render your freedom under the insurgent system; however this means that you have to be responsible for yourself: the government is no longer your keeper. And, if you do not believe this interruptive presentment about the Fourteenth Amendment, this question is put forward:


As a constitution is something that represents perpetual law, why would these 4 Sections have been instituted if they only served a temporary legal purpose–such as dealing with post-Civil War matters? An act of Congress could cover temporary measures. . .
Well. . . What say you about this assertion? You do not have an answer, do you?
[Next Part is Chapter 3 Summary]
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3.9 FOURTEENTH AMENDMENT SUMMARY
1. Is the FOURTEENTH AMENDMENT an open and public proclamation made by a self proclaimed unlawful sovereign –
The new governmental system of the United States?
2. Does the Fourteenth Amendment indirectly proclaim its reasons and/or its motives for declaring a war?
3. Does the Communist Manifesto put forth political and/or social principles which can be—or are—applied in America?
4. Have these said implemented principles caused the "bankruptcy" of America that is obvious in the public debt, which has/is consequently stolen wealth from Americans? 21


Unfortunately the answer is “YES” to all of the above questions.


This is consequently tied to the totalitarian Fourteenth Amendment governmental system. The actual purpose of the Fourteenth Amendment is obvious by the placement of Section 4:


• Perpetual Debt: The second reference to RED
• Communism: The first reference of RED


The latter being a Blueprint to achieve the former, which translates into: NEO-SLAVERY.
CONCLUSION: The purpose of the Fourteenth Amendment is to steal what was gained in war, purchase and treaty by forefathers. The wealth of America is being stolen by a cabal.
FURTHERMORE, whose rebellion is this anyway? Did the American peoples say–
“Please take our freedom away; we really don’t care what you do to us. We want to be oppressed under a totalitarian-dictatorship-military style government under the rule of man rather than God. Oh, and furthermore, while you’re playing these Communistic War Games, don’t forget to steal our lawful money, land and tax us to death.”
Take heed, the Supreme Court has been telling us what has been going on for years. . .
“[T]he America once extolled as the voice of liberty heard around the world no longer is cast in the image which Jefferson and Madison designed, but more in the Russian image.”
—Chief Justice Douglas, Laird v. Tatum, 408 U.S. 1 (1972)
“The citizen cannot complain, because he has voluntarily submitted himself to such a form of government. . . .he owes allegiance to the two departments, so to speak, and within their respective spheres must pay the penalties.”
—United States v. Cruikshank, 92 U.S. 542 (1875)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ www.redamendment.net ©
Authored by LB Bork of the People’s Awareness Coalition, all rights reserved
PAC – POB 313 – Kieler, Wisconsin www.pacinlaw.org
LB may be reached via email at: lb@pacinlaw.org
21 FEDERAL RESERVE NOTES. Such have replaced silver and gold certificates which were backed by silver and gold. Such reserve notes are direct obligations of the United States. Black’s Law Dictionary, Sixth Edition Deluxe

Page 11

THE RED AMENDMENT
Order Form – Single & Bulk Orders
The 2007 Edition of
THE RED AMENDMENT
♦♦♦♦
The Red Amendment, 2007 Edition
1- $30 donation, shipping included
Bulk - 10 or more $15 each, plus $25 dollar shipping fee per order
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The Red Amendment, 2007 Edition Deluxe
Includes five 14th Amendment Law Reviews
1- $35 donation, shipping included
Bulk - 10 or more $20 each, plus $25 dollar shipping fee per order
YOUR ORDER:
Send a BLANK POSTAL MONEY ORDER or CASH to:
People’s Awareness Coalition
PAC • POB 313 • Kieler, Wisconsin [ 53812 ] • www.pacinlaw.org
BULK ORDERS: In contraposition to the past, there are no stipulations on reselling The Red Amendment, 2007 Edition. It is just requested that you not sell it for more than the suggested donation price per unit, and that you do not sell it on the internet (without an advanced written agreement). Having copies of The Red Amendment on hand is beneficial due to the fact that you will be able to provide it to people quickly, saving them shipping costs, waiting period, etc.

Sunday, July 24, 2011

Goofy Stats

I would be lying if I said that I wasn't addicted with watching my stats.

Here's a list of some search keywords that I have compiled over a month. Some of these are funny, and some of them are confounding. 

  • where can a sovereign send common law documents to be recorded  
Apparently to everyone, after the State and County Registry. (Note: This won't help you one bit, and will get you into serious trouble if you persist.) 

  • selling on craigslist, will irs catch me?  
lol. Hard to say. What are you selling anyhow?

The IRS has ways of finding if you're faithful in your bookkeeping. It's better to not take the risk. 

  • judge leander perez excommunicated
It's true. Leander H. Perez was such a piece of shit that he was excommunicated by the Catholic Church, and that is very hard thing to do. I honestly don't know how the Sovereign Citizen movement could take his claims in good faith considering that he's the complete antithesis of freedom.

By the way, thanks for running into my blog. Everyone should know about LH Perez, John Rarick, George Wallace, et al.  

  • national association for gun rights scam 
I had to look this one up. There's a fly by night organization that is asking for emergency donations from righteous gun owners. I probably got this from reposting one of RJ's many Anti-UN posts. 

  • marriage license scam 
Sounds like something that RJ would look up. ("Yes, I'm totally free from government oppression. I'm married because I say so, bitch you can't divorce me! Only I call the shots here!") 

  • free white inhabitant in federalist papers 42 and 43 
I can't imagine what out of context quote this person is looking for. 

  • is nmg national media group a scam 
Who knows?

  • alfred adask racist 
If this is a question, then yes. Whether or not he realizes it is the better question to be asking.

  • paying tax sovereign person ireland
 What does Ireland has to do with anything?

  • ecclesiastical deed poll scam
  • ed wahler usa v us
  • oneheaven.org ecclesastical deed polled
  • usa vs us tj henderson, edward wahler and richard dwight kegley
Shit I don't care about.

  • how can i find out if i am a sovereign?
lol. But seriously, even playing LB Bork's game, you can't.

  • "sovereign movement" 60 minutes where can i watch
Right here. Also, here's my post about it.

  • what happens if a sovereign citizen has a wreck
Assuming that you're Jerry Kane, your whole life comes crashing down. Otherwise, if you are a normal person who's "sovereign in name only" and isn't defrauding the government over fake license plates, then nothing special. 

I wonder if PACinlaw offers an insurance program for car accidents. (Oh shit, I just gave Bork a good idea for a scam!).

  • "hello troy" megathread
This pulls up a ton of porn. No thanks.

  • craigslist.com 00000000
This pulls up my blog because I used to troll RJ with "incoming transmissions" from his exalted leader. 

It also pulls up some programmer's blog, and that is probably the intended destination of such a search.

  • soverign citizen coalation
I doubt that one exists. There's no honor among thieves; I don't expect a coalition to last long enough to get anything meaningful within their bickering over honors.
  • red amendment scam
The scam is that it's poorly written and researched.

  • is sorry for the wait a scam?
Yeah, I don't get it either...

  • "abiding truth ministries springfield"
An anti-gay church operating in Springfield, Ma. I probably got this search term because of this post.

  • craigslist flagging coalition
Did you know that you can create your own?

  • renounce your social security number
I'm going to chalk this one up as impossible. Though I have read a Quatloos thread that claimed of a form that one could fill out that would make you exempt from SS tax, but you have to belong to a religious group that cares for it's social well being like the Amish. You won't get your money back, though.

More to come...

Tuesday, July 19, 2011

RationalReaper, and the ghosting of bos /pol/ (long) (102 - 104)

This update is super long. I strongly recommend skipping RJ's posts.

We have a new contender! Come on down!</Bob Barker>

re: The 14th Amendment (rationalreaper™)



Date: 2011-06-16, 11:45PM EDT
Reply to: see below [Errors when replying to ads?]


WAS ratified and adopted in July of 1868...

Why bother to post lies when they can easily be debunked?

RR™


  • Location: rationalreaper™
  • it's NOT ok to contact this poster with services or other commercial interests


PostingID: 2445374042

RationalReaper is an old /pol/ troll who used to post in Boston all the time, and then migrated to Washington D.C.. He/She is a leftist poster - which is a rare gimmick on Craigslist these days. But I enjoy that kind of thing. There's too many Ron Paulites and Tea Party reactionaries, and they all post alike.

I don't get the trademark though. It's a tad bit pretentious.

RR was just responding to a general RJ post about the 14th not being ratified. RJ fires back:

re: The 14th Amendment (rationalreaper™) (BRING PROOF and ...... (LIES!))


Date: 2011-06-17, 7:24AM EDT
Reply to: comm-cxxec-2445589086@craigslist.org [Errors when replying to ads?]



If You Bring Proof of the 14th being ratified and I'll show you where you are LIEING and counter with written proof of Your Continues Lies and that you are Communist. We have Nations of Dumbed Down Americans who may fall for your propaganda because they believe whatever they're told. WELL . . . They Are Waking UP!!
Where do you profit from the 14th, poster of "re: The 14th Amendment (rationalreaper™)"

http://www.14th-amendment.com/

http://republicvsdemocracy.org/



  • Location: BRING PROOF and ...... (LIES!)
  • it's NOT ok to contact this poster with services or other commercial interests
PostingID: 2445589086

Ohhh the game is on! RationalReaper from completely disregarding false evidence provided by RJ and repeating the same point:

re:14th Amendment....Why did you lie? (rationalreaper™)

Date: 2011-06-17, 9:27AM EDT
Reply to: see below [Errors when replying to ads?]



Don't delete my posts.If you don't want to be exposed for posting lies.....simply...Don't post LIES.


It is easily looked up by anyone.An effortless task with the Internet...even for the laziest bastards.


The 14th Amendment was RATIFIED and ADOPTED in July of 1868.


RR™


  • Location: rationalreaper™
  • it's NOT ok to contact this poster with services or other commercial interests

PostingID: 2445716664

Looks like RJ doesn't want to argue with him fairly. Nothing new, really, he has always done that to me. In another post:

re Bring proof...re: 14th Amendment...from the Library of Congress (rationalreaper™)

Date: 2011-06-17, 9:36AM EDT
Reply to: see below [Errors when replying to ads?]




14th Amendment to the Constitution Was Ratified
July 28, 1868
On July 28, 1868, the 14th Amendment to the United States Constitution was ratified. The amendment grants citizenship to "all persons born or naturalized in the United States" which included former slaves who had just been freed after the Civil War. The amendment had been rejected by most Southern states but was ratified by the required three-fourths of the states. Known as the "Reconstruction Amendment," it forbids any state to deny any person "life, liberty or property, without due process of law" or to "deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws."


page 1 of 3


There are a slew of legitimate websites that also verify...but I think the Library of Congress should suffice.


RR™




  • Location: rationalreaper™
  • it's NOT ok to contact this poster with services or other commercial interests
PostingID: 2445730966

Woah, woah, woah... who said you could introduce facts into this discussion?

RJ counters below. 

2re: The 14th Amendment (NOT RATIFIED)(rationalreaper™) (Huh, That's Funny!! Others DELETE Ur POS)


Date: 2011-06-18, 10:38AM EDT
Reply to: see below [Errors when replying to ads?]




If You Bring Proof of the 14th being ratified (not), I'll show you where you are LIEING and I'll Counter with written proof of Your Continues Lies and that you are COMMUNIST and that you PROFIT off the illgetinate private law system. We have Nations of Dumbed Down Americans who may fall for your propaganda because they believe whatever they're told. WELL . . . They Are Waking UP!!


By you Just Saying that the 14th Amendment was Raitified (not) and throwing out a Date DOES NOT Make the 14th Amendment Ratified.


Where within this unlawful, illgetimate private law system do you profit from the 14th, (poster of "re: The 14th Amendment (rationalreaper™)") The 14th is a Fraud on the American People to enslave and control people of the Republic (taxes, licences, permits, fines, fees, ect.)(Control)


"Senator Doolittle from Wisconsin quoting all the daily statements from the Senate said to wit: "What is said every day; the people of the South have rejected the constitutional amendment, and therefore we will march upon them and force them to adopt it at the point of the bayonet, and establish military power over them until they do adopt it" (See The Congressional Globe Feb 20th 1867 page 1644) This was not just talk for history bears out that they did what they said they would do" The Reconstruction Acts should be evidence enough.


"Like the Utah State Supreme Court in 1968 stated in the case called Dyett v Turner "We feel like slaves in a galley" Now, is that any way for a Court to feel? Is that any way for a Nation to operate?


It will also be remembered that Article V required the willful votes of the State Legislatures, and forbids the deprivation of State suffrage unless such States consent. Guns pointed at their heads can not be considered consent. Not to mention the surrogate government sent in with military support to take out of office the properly elected office holders. There can be no proper replacement of an office holder unless the one moved out is "properly" taken out (see Hoke v. Henderson , Brown et el. v. Board of Levee Commissioner, and White v. White 5 Barb NY 474 1849)


First and absolute foremost, the attacks and evasion on the Southern States were done without "Due Process of Law, so this whole problem is a judicial question since due process is a strict virtue of the Courts.
Did the government provide Due Process when taking life liberty and property from the States and it's peoples in 1861 and thereafter?
It will be remembered that Jeremiah Black, the Attorney General prior to the time that options were being searched out, plainly stated that it would be illegal to invade the States unless they went through the Courts. He further elaborated that if the States were to be treated like enemies then they could retaliate in what ever form they felt necessary, and that ". . . if Congress shall break up the present Union, by unconstitutionally putting strife and enmity and armed hostility between different sections of the country, instead of the domestic tranquility which the Constitution was meant to insure, will not all the States be absolved from their federal obligations?. . . then the Union must utterly perish at the moment when Congress shall arm one part of the people against another for any purpose beyond that of merely protecting the general government in the exercise of its proper constitutional functions." (See Official Opinions of Attorneys General of the United States Vol. 9 page 516 through 526.) What Jeremiah Black said would be the official opinion of the United States Government according to section 25 of the 1789 Judiciary Act. What branch of government took heed or even gave it any rank at all. While this is strictly a due process question yet the Court has hid behind a fraudulent wall called "It's a political Question" Where in the history of Due Process can it ever be called a political question when due process is strictly a judicial function?


Any new meaning of Due Process later than the founded definition at the time it was placed in the United States Constitution in 1790 will have to go through Article V to be constitutionally accepted. So, Post war changes have no standings such as the arrogance of Hurtado v. Calf. 110 U.S. 516 (1884) stating that a grand jury would not be necessary "so long as the rest of the trial is fair". However, even when the Courts has alluded the question concerning the 14th Amendment by using this wall, and saying it can not rule on the issue, I find it contradictory that the Court has made rulings concerning the validity of an amendment five times.(See Hollingsworth v. Virginia, 3 Dall., 378 1798, ; Hawke v. Smith, 253 U.S. 231 1920; Rhode Island v. Palmer, 253 U.S.; Dillion v. Gloss, 256 U.S. 368, and United States v. Sprague, 282 U.S. 716 1931) Such actions taken by the Court negates any trust in them when they turn around and select a time and an amendment that it wants to claim it has no authority to rule on.


The damages caused by the fraudulent teachings in the public schools has severed away the common knowledge from the people in such abundance for so long that one would have to leave his own generational time table and study past the public memory The modern plenitude that over whams the commuting elements in the people has dismantled necessary public reasoning to such a point that their votes have nothing but numerical value. At these so called elections there is no sound minds to consult with as to what policies would be preferred from these people since the policies are already been pre-stored in them by the educating institutions. Furthermore the people seem to be classed as ens legis rather than natural persons.


A final note concerning the Law of Nations. In Article 1 section 8 clause 10 it states to wit: To define and punish. . . offenses against the Law of Nations. It will be remembered that this "Law of Nations named out here spoke only of the one written by Emmerich de Vattel written in 1758 and was thereby fully incorporated in our Constitution word for word as stated by John Jay to all the Grand Juries he instructed around the Circuits. This seems to be totally ignored insomuch that The Law of Nations has not been practiced as it should. Again, any law contrary to the Law of Nations is Contrary to the Constitution and against the Several States. New International law that was supposingly accepted, but in direct contradiction to Vattels Law of Nations has no binding force because no office holder of any level is authorized to pass legislation (Legislation, not the same as The Law of the Land, see Westervelt v. Gregg 12 NY 209) against the Constitution rather international or domestic. I remind you again that changing the Constitution can only be done through the proper use of Article V, which there has never been an Amendment to nullify Article 1 Section 8 concerning this great part of our laws (See, United States v. Smith 5 Wheat. 153, 160, 162 (1820) ; The Marianna Flora, 11 Wheat 1, 40-41 (1826); and United States v. Brig. Malek Abhel, 2 How. 210, 232, (1844), yet the present government violates every portion of it. The importance of this may be recognized by your office or it may not, but I thought it should be brought up even though I will not at this time be elaborating about the connection of this to the other problems mentioned above.




If States Rights are destroyed then so is the government (See Kidd v. Pearson, 247 US 75-276)


Since the 14th Amendment did not ratify, then first and foremost there is no such thing as a United Sates Citizen as defined in post Civil war doctrines ( See Ex Parte Knowles, 5 Cal. 300, 302 1855).




http://www.14th-amendment.com/


http://republicvsdemocracy.org/



  • Location: Huh, That's Funny!! Others DELETE Ur POS
  • it's NOT ok to contact this poster with services or other commercial interests
PostingID: 2447871245
It's obvious from the first paragraph that RJ believes that he could never be wrong, and to prove it, he regurgitates his old copy n' paste material. Distraught, he posts again 6 minutes later hoping for an immediate response. Why he didn't bother making one concise, fully fleshed, argumentative post is anyone's guess.


; re Bring proof...re: 14th Amendment...from the Library of Congress (AGENT, DUMB ASS!! )


Date: 2011-06-18, 10:44AM EDT
Reply to: comm-uysbs-2447883317@craigslist.org [Errors when replying to ads?]




LOL, Library of Congress??!! 



Article V of the Constitution proves that the State powers are supreme over the Federal powers.


State Citizenship has been the proper (and may I add, "only") status that our forefathers possessed before the Military Enforcement of the 14th Amendment upon our Country. (Note: MILITARY ENFORCEMENT")


The 14th Amendment "never" ratified through Article V which has very limited methods and procedures and may I add, "simple" instructions as to when an amendment can be lawfully added to the Constitution? Be assured that neither you, nor any jurist of any level will find the use of "Military Power " to be used anywhere in Article V.


It will also be remembered that Article V required the "Willful Votes" of the State Legislatures, and forbids the deprivation of State suffrage unless such States consent.


Guns pointed at their heads can not be considered consent, therefore the 14th Amendment Does Not Exist!


Placing the American People under slavery by gathering their signatures for their willful consent without full disclosure to slavery under False PRETENCES is FRAUDUALANT, UNLAWFUL and therefore ILLIGITEMATE!! (As Many Court Rulings Have Stated)


The People May Have Been Dumb Down Through "STATE' Run Public Education, but they are now becoming well aware of the power that their signature and their enslavement by government..


For Your Further Education and Action . . . .
http://www.dueprocessdenied.com/


Welcome to the home page link for the U.S. Constitution, 14th Amendment The Amendment That Never Existed. Understand Your HISTORY and Begin Acting!


http://www.14th-amendment.com/


http://republicvsdemocracy.org/




  • Location: AGENT, DUMB ASS!!
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RJ is wrong about Article V of the US Constitution.

  1. Article V says nothing about state powers having supremacy over federal powers. 
  2. Article V is not limited in it's power, nor does it limit Congress' power. 
  3. Confederate states weren't states during reconstruction, per se. Don't like it? Then don't secede. (If you can't do the time, then don't do the crime).
  4. "...and that no State, without its Consent, shall be deprived of its equal Suffrage in the Senate." House and senate had quorum for Reconstruction Acts and 13th, 14th, and 15th Amendments. 
Hypothetically, it does outline an avenue of ratification that could provide checks and balances on Congress by going around them with State Conventions and, but that's it. Whether or not RJ wants to believe it, from the inception of the United States, all states are beholden to the federal government in order 'to form a more perfect union.' It was designed to be like this.

30 minutes later...

re3 Bring proof...re: 14th Amendment(NOT RATIFED) (THE PROCLAMATION )


Date: 2011-06-18, 11:14AM EDT
Reply to: see below [Errors when replying to ads?]




THE PROCLAMATION


Under the sovereign powers reserved to the people under Article X of the Bill of Rights to the U.S. Constitution and the Declaration of Independence of July 4, 1776; we the people, in our sovereign capacity, hereby declares that with the vote of rejection being cast by the Legislature for the State of Maryland on March 23rd 1867, the 14th Amendment to the Constitution was rejected by more than one fourth (1/4) of the lawful Legislatures of the States that were in the Union during the year 1867. The 14th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution does not exist and all Laws and Judicial Opinions to the contrary are declared null and void ab initio. Anyone who has knowledge to the contrary, come forward and present your evidence.


Gordon Warren Epperly




  • Location: THE PROCLAMATION
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The Ratification process doesn't work like Gordon thinks it does. 

  1. Failures of ratification do not shut down the ratification of an amendment.
  2. Rescissions don't matter
  3. The 14th Amendment did not have a time limit. It really was only a matter of time until 3/4th of the states ratify it. Currently, all states have ratified the Reconstruction Amendments, so the 14th Amendment exists. 

An hour and change later...

2 re:14th Amendment (NOT)....Why did you lie? (rationalreaper™) (JACK ASS!)


Date: 2011-06-18, 12:16PM EDT
Reply to: comm-wpuu7-2448077211@craigslist.org [Errors when replying to ads?]




Yes I agree People Should Google Search. " NON RATIFICATION Of The 14th Amendment " or " The 14th Amendment did not Ratify " or " 14th amendment does not exist " or " the 14th Amendment Enslaves "





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re:14th Amendment....Why did you lie? (rationalreaper™)


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Date: 2011-06-17, 9:27AM EDT
Reply to: see below [Errors when replying to ads?]
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Don't delete my posts.If you don't want to be exposed for posting lies.....simply...Don't post LIES.


It is easily looked up by anyone.An effortless task with the Internet...even for the laziest bastards.


The 14th Amendment was RATIFIED and ADOPTED in July of 1868.


RR

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    Yes RJ, why don't we all do your research for you? Lazy bum.

    Straight from the official copy of the US Constitution,14th Amendement (rationalreaper™)


    Date: 2011-06-18, 4:14PM EDT
    Reply to: see below [Errors when replying to ads?]




    This copy is carried in the breast pockets or pocketbooks of most congressional reps...or so they claim.


    The GENUINE ARTICLE........Now why would the 14th Amendment be printed in every publishing of the United States Constitution if it doesn't exist?


    Do you really think people are going to take the claims of a few racial,radical right wing evangelical websites saying the 14th Amendment was never ratified?


    Now I realize that you hate the idea of non-whites having the same privileges as whites.....but no matter how hard you try to re-write history.....it aint happening.


    Read it and accept the things you cannot change.


    RR™




    AMENDMENT XIV
    Passed by Congress June 13, 1866. Ratified July 9, 1868.


    Note: Article I, section 2, of the Constitution was modified by section 2 of the 14th amendment.


    Section 1.
    All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.


    Section 2.
    Representatives shall be apportioned among the several States according to their respective numbers, counting the whole number of persons in each State, excluding Indians not taxed. But when the right to vote at any election for the choice of electors for President and Vice-President of the United States, Representatives in Congress, the Executive and Judicial officers of a State, or the members of the Legislature thereof, is denied to any of the male inhabitants of such State, being twenty-one years of age,* and citizens of the United States, or in any way abridged, except for participation in rebellion, or other crime, the basis of representation therein shall be reduced in the proportion which the number of such male citizens shall bear to the whole number of male citizens twenty-one years of age in such State.


    Section 3.
    No person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice-President, or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States, or under any State, who, having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress, or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of any State legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any State, to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof. But Congress may by a vote of two-thirds of each House, remove such disability.


    Section 4.
    The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. But neither the United States nor any State shall assume or pay any debt or obligation incurred in aid of insurrection or rebellion against the United States, or any claim for the loss or emancipation of any slave; but all such debts, obligations and claims shall be held illegal and void.


    Section 5.
    The Congress shall have the power to enforce, by appropriate legislation, the provisions of this article



    • Location: rationalreaper™
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    Ice Burn!!!

    RationalReaper doesn't need any help, but I decided to tip him off [publicly] just to make sure he's on the right page.

    What's the deal with that 14th Amendment conspiracy nut? (Hey RationalReaper)


    Date: 2011-06-18, 5:00PM EDT
    Reply to: your anonymous craigslist address will appear here


    I was thinking to myself and thought, hey, I remember this poster from the DC politics board a long time ago. Sure enough, you are that poster. I liked that pro-Union post you made this morning, by the way.

    That 14th Amendment conspiracy nut is exactly that. He belongs to an organization called pacinlaw.org, which is a sovereign citizens group that claims that they can remove federal citizenship from a its applicants. This is, of course, used to dodge the income tax. Their services don't work, and should not be expected to work. If you're looking to get a reservation at your local federal prison, this is a good way to get in.

    The racism is pretty tame (read: very coded) compared to others, but it's good to know that I'm not the only one bothered by it.

    For more info, see the The Tax Protester FAQ.
    http://evans-legal.com/dan/tpfaq.html

    And finally, keep on rockin' in the free world, RR!

    • Location: Hey RationalReaper
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    I never got a direct response from that, but in his/her later posts I can tell that the message was received loud and clear.

    Below, I try to instigate a fight with other honest yet morally abhorrent posters.

    Re:I disagree with the rational reaper but I would never flag his post


    Date: 2011-06-21, 4:44PM EDT
    Reply to: your anonymous craigslist address will appear here


    I'm not the flagger. Don't get me twisted. But:

    Do you ever think that you're being flagged because of your use of racial epithets (wetback)? It's against terms of use to use them, so I can see why someone would want to flag you because of it. Perhaps you can tone down your posts, or if you must use them, post it in Rants and Raves?

    But yeah, I'm pretty sure that RationalReaper isn't the flagger. He's simply not cunty enough. I really think it's that 14th Amendment dude. I have been following this section long enough to believe that he uses an Autopost/flagging program to give himself free reign over the section. It's so irritating to see him post large blocks of tired and failed arguments over and over. Even a cunt like RationalReaper can trash his spam arguments in one post., but that doesn't stop 14th amendment dude because he gets paid to post.

    To the 14th Amendment poster - FUCK OFF AND DIE. NOBODY WANTS YOUR SHITTY SERVICES.

    ----------------------------------
    I disagree with the rational reaper but I would never flag his post (I'm against jobstealing wetbacks)

    I posted the post calling him a knucklehead for having his own trademark which has been up for days. All my other posts have been flagged. I know for a fact that one flagger is the 14th amendment dude and their are many other pussies that flag liberal and conservative because they can't stand LOSING an argument like a sissy. I might not like what someone's say's but I will fight like a motherfucker for their right to say it SO PUSSY FLAGGERS, MAN UP if you can and let people with opposing opinions post. Only bolsheviks want one opinion.

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    Below: RJ makes a dumb post. It's self explanatory.

    Re: Oklahoma sovereignty (old news)


    Date: 2011-06-22, 11:46PM EDT
    Reply to: see below


    WOW!!! Old news is so exciting!

    Too bad you can't get your resolutions and laws straight.

    They still accept federal funding, and they're certainly not going to follow Pacinlaw's game plan, moron!

    But hey, you're a stupid motherfucker, you can do whatever the hell you want with your own money, I'm not gonna stop you. Just don't be surprised when it doesn't work out at all.

    -----------
    Oklahoma as a "SOVEREIGN" STATE (Kicking Ass and Taking Names!!!!)

    Date: 2011-06-22, 10:06PM EDT
    Reply to: comm-cup2a-2457043670@craigslist.org [Errors when replying to ads?]

    Seems to me like 14th Amendment guy might know something we don't! I will searching out Pac in Law

    ________________________________________________________________________________________


    Several weeks ago, Oklahoma passed a law, declaring Oklahoma as a Sovereign state, not under the Federal Government directives. Joining Texas , Montana and Utah as the only states to do so.

    More states are likely to follow: Louisiana, Alabama , Georgia , the Carolina 's, Tennessee , Kentucky , Missouri , Arkansas , West Virginia , Mississippi , Florida . Save your confederate money, it appears the South is about to rise up once again. HJR 1003

    Kicking Ass and Taking Names!!!!


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    • Location: old news
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    That post was flagged because RJ couldn't admit that he is a moron.

    re: Where do you profit from the 14th Amendment RR? (rationalreaper™)


    Date: 2011-06-18, 5:05PM EDT
    Reply to: see below [Errors when replying to ads?]




    That doesn't matter one iota...whether or not I profit or not from the 14th amendment.What matters is it does exist...it was ratified and adopted by three fourths of the states.


    What matters is people like you who blatantly lie about such things.Now you are claiming there is no 14th amendment..and it was never ratified.


    You can't re-write history or laws to suit what you would like to be history and law.


    What you can do is try to amend the amendment and change the law if you dislike it so much.


    That's all there is to it...you are lying and I am proving that you are lying.


    I get nothing out of it other than to set the record straight by posting the record.


    It's just like....Paul Revere was not a courier...did not ring bells and fire shots on his route from Boston to Virginia to warn the Resistance that the British were coming.


    He was on a stealth mission...it was not his intent to draw attention to himself.It was not his intent to warn the British that we were going to put up a fight and not let them take our guns.


    You teabaggers make fools of yourselves when you say stoopid (<--- spelled incorrectly on purpose) things like this.


    BTW...Sarah had no excuse for her idiocy....she had just had just attended a tour in Boston on Beacon Hill where the tour guide instructed everyone on the facts of Paul Revere's historical ride.


    She obviously wasn't listening...or she has a severe handicap when it comes to comprehension.Yet she claims the reporter slipped a "Gotcha" question in just to trip her up.


    No....She just doesn't know what the fuck she is talking about half of the time.


    Just like the nut job trying to get everyone to believe there is no 14th amendment.


    RR™


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    A minor nitpick: RJ isn't a teabagger. The Tea Party isn't that extreme (unless RationalReaper knows something that I don't).

    Below: RJ reprises his position.

    2re: Where do you profit from the 14th Amendment RR? (rationalreaper™)


    Date: 2011-06-18, 9:40PM EDT
    Reply to: see below [Errors when replying to ads?]




    Nut Job Who Believes what He Was Taught In "STATE" Run Public School System! LMAO!! You Actually Believe rather than Investigate Yourself the HISTORICAL TRUTH of The 14th Amendment. Leave Your Name Please so that I may sell you a Bridge Real Close to your Nut House that You Escaped from!!


    The 14th DOES NOT EXIST Jack Ass. There is NOTHING to Amend, You Can't amend something that does not exist. Of course I'll Post the Real Truth and when your Feelings are hurt that I proved you wrong you'll flag it! So I'll just repost the Historical Proof Over and Over Again. Haven't you Learned Yet? I have spent two years Happily reposting every posting you've deleted.


    By you Just Saying that the 14th Amendment was Raitified (not) and throwing out a Date DOES NOT Make the 14th Amendment Ratified.


    Where within this unlawful, illgetimate private law system do you profit from the 14th, (poster of "re: The 14th Amendment (rationalreaper™)") The 14th is a Fraud on the American People to enslave and control people of the Republic (taxes, licences, permits, fines, fees, ect.)(Control)


    "Senator Doolittle from Wisconsin quoting all the daily statements from the Senate said to wit: "What is said every day; the people of the South have rejected the constitutional amendment, and therefore we will march upon them and force them to adopt it at the point of the bayonet, and establish military power over them until they do adopt it" (See The Congressional Globe Feb 20th 1867 page 1644) This was not just talk for history bears out that they did what they said they would do" The Reconstruction Acts should be evidence enough.


    "Like the Utah State Supreme Court in 1968 stated in the case called Dyett v Turner "We feel like slaves in a galley" Now, is that any way for a Court to feel? Is that any way for a Nation to operate?


    It will also be remembered that Article V required the willful votes of the State Legislatures, and forbids the deprivation of State suffrage unless such States consent. Guns pointed at their heads can not be considered consent. Not to mention the surrogate government sent in with military support to take out of office the properly elected office holders. There can be no proper replacement of an office holder unless the one moved out is "properly" taken out (see Hoke v. Henderson , Brown et el. v. Board of Levee Commissioner, and White v. White 5 Barb NY 474 1849)


    First and absolute foremost, the attacks and evasion on the Southern States were done without "Due Process of Law, so this whole problem is a judicial question since due process is a strict virtue of the Courts.
    Did the government provide Due Process when taking life liberty and property from the States and it's peoples in 1861 and thereafter?
    It will be remembered that Jeremiah Black, the Attorney General prior to the time that options were being searched out, plainly stated that it would be illegal to invade the States unless they went through the Courts. He further elaborated that if the States were to be treated like enemies then they could retaliate in what ever form they felt necessary, and that ". . . if Congress shall break up the present Union, by unconstitutionally putting strife and enmity and armed hostility between different sections of the country, instead of the domestic tranquility which the Constitution was meant to insure, will not all the States be absolved from their federal obligations?. . . then the Union must utterly perish at the moment when Congress shall arm one part of the people against another for any purpose beyond that of merely protecting the general government in the exercise of its proper constitutional functions." (See Official Opinions of Attorneys General of the United States Vol. 9 page 516 through 526.) What Jeremiah Black said would be the official opinion of the United States Government according to section 25 of the 1789 Judiciary Act. What branch of government took heed or even gave it any rank at all. While this is strictly a due process question yet the Court has hid behind a fraudulent wall called "It's a political Question" Where in the history of Due Process can it ever be called a political question when due process is strictly a judicial function?


    Any new meaning of Due Process later than the founded definition at the time it was placed in the United States Constitution in 1790 will have to go through Article V to be constitutionally accepted. So, Post war changes have no standings such as the arrogance of Hurtado v. Calf. 110 U.S. 516 (1884) stating that a grand jury would not be necessary "so long as the rest of the trial is fair". However, even when the Courts has alluded the question concerning the 14th Amendment by using this wall, and saying it can not rule on the issue, I find it contradictory that the Court has made rulings concerning the validity of an amendment five times.(See Hollingsworth v. Virginia, 3 Dall., 378 1798, ; Hawke v. Smith, 253 U.S. 231 1920; Rhode Island v. Palmer, 253 U.S.; Dillion v. Gloss, 256 U.S. 368, and United States v. Sprague, 282 U.S. 716 1931) Such actions taken by the Court negates any trust in them when they turn around and select a time and an amendment that it wants to claim it has no authority to rule on.


    The damages caused by the fraudulent teachings in the public schools has severed away the common knowledge from the people in such abundance for so long that one would have to leave his own generational time table and study past the public memory The modern plenitude that over whams the commuting elements in the people has dismantled necessary public reasoning to such a point that their votes have nothing but numerical value. At these so called elections there is no sound minds to consult with as to what policies would be preferred from these people since the policies are already been pre-stored in them by the educating institutions. Furthermore the people seem to be classed as ens legis rather than natural persons.


    A final note concerning the Law of Nations. In Article 1 section 8 clause 10 it states to wit: To define and punish. . . offenses against the Law of Nations. It will be remembered that this "Law of Nations named out here spoke only of the one written by Emmerich de Vattel written in 1758 and was thereby fully incorporated in our Constitution word for word as stated by John Jay to all the Grand Juries he instructed around the Circuits. This seems to be totally ignored insomuch that The Law of Nations has not been practiced as it should. Again, any law contrary to the Law of Nations is Contrary to the Constitution and against the Several States. New International law that was supposingly accepted, but in direct contradiction to Vattels Law of Nations has no binding force because no office holder of any level is authorized to pass legislation (Legislation, not the same as The Law of the Land, see Westervelt v. Gregg 12 NY 209) against the Constitution rather international or domestic. I remind you again that changing the Constitution can only be done through the proper use of Article V, which there has never been an Amendment to nullify Article 1 Section 8 concerning this great part of our laws (See, United States v. Smith 5 Wheat. 153, 160, 162 (1820) ; The Marianna Flora, 11 Wheat 1, 40-41 (1826); and United States v. Brig. Malek Abhel, 2 How. 210, 232, (1844), yet the present government violates every portion of it. The importance of this may be recognized by your office or it may not, but I thought it should be brought up even though I will not at this time be elaborating about the connection of this to the other problems mentioned above.




    If States Rights are destroyed then so is the government (See Kidd v. Pearson, 247 US 75-276)


    Since the 14th Amendment did not ratify, then first and foremost there is no such thing as a United Sates Citizen as defined in post Civil war doctrines ( See Ex Parte Knowles, 5 Cal. 300, 302 1855).




    http://www.14th-amendment.com/


    http://republicvsdemocracy.org/



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    tl;dr. Fun fact, if one were to search for each and every court case mentioned, it often returns sovereign citizen sources. Without putting too much effort into this, Ex Parte Knowles and Kidd v. Pearson are irrelevant to the argument.


    30 some odd minutes later RJ repeats himself once more. I deleted it in the sake of brevity. You're not missing much.

    re: 14th Amendment...if I'm wrong...why do you keep deleting? (rationalreaper™)


    Date: 2011-06-18, 11:17PM EDT
    Reply to: see below [Errors when replying to ads?]




    Jackass....you must have been home schooled by a parent with a 5th grade equivalency.


    Really....If I am wrong....why have you pounced and deleted 4 of these messages?


    I'll tell you why...because I am not wrong...I am right....and you're with pacinlaw and if everyone knows you folks are lying sacks of shit....they'll stop sending you money.


    Nice people you are....giving those people who are a little slow, misinformation...just to further your corrupt greedy agenda.


    Some of the information you pass out can land people in jail if they follow your advice.


    Show me you're not desperate and let this post stay up.


    I'm just going to keep re-posting it every time you run your flagging software anyway.




    I guess you don't like the truth very much.Typical of a teabagging Goper


    This copy is carried in the breast pockets or pocketbooks of most congressional reps...or so they claim.


    The GENUINE ARTICLE........Now why would the 14th Amendment be printed in every publishing of the United States Constitution if it doesn't exist?


    Do you really think people are going to take the claims of a few racial,radical right wing evangelical websites saying the 14th Amendment was never ratified?


    Now I realize that you hate the idea of non-whites having the same privileges as whites.....but no matter how hard you try to re-write history.....it aint happening.


    Read it and accept the things you cannot change.


    RR™




    AMENDMENT XIV
    Passed by Congress June 13, 1866. Ratified July 9, 1868.


    Note: Article I, section 2, of the Constitution was modified by section 2 of the 14th amendment.


    Section 1.
    All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.


    Section 2.
    Representatives shall be apportioned among the several States according to their respective numbers, counting the whole number of persons in each State, excluding Indians not taxed. But when the right to vote at any election for the choice of electors for President and Vice-President of the United States, Representatives in Congress, the Executive and Judicial officers of a State, or the members of the Legislature thereof, is denied to any of the male inhabitants of such State, being twenty-one years of age,* and citizens of the United States, or in any way abridged, except for participation in rebellion, or other crime, the basis of representation therein shall be reduced in the proportion which the number of such male citizens shall bear to the whole number of male citizens twenty-one years of age in such State.


    Section 3.
    No person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice-President, or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States, or under any State, who, having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress, or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of any State legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any State, to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof. But Congress may by a vote of two-thirds of each House, remove such disability.


    Section 4.
    The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. But neither the United States nor any State shall assume or pay any debt or obligation incurred in aid of insurrection or rebellion against the United States, or any claim for the loss or emancipation of any slave; but all such debts, obligations and claims shall be held illegal and void.


    Section 5.
    The Congress shall have the power to enforce, by appropriate legislation, the provisions of this article
    ___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________


    That doesn't matter one iota...whether or not I profit or not from the 14th amendment.What matters is it does exist...it was ratified and adopted by three fourths of the states.


    What matters is people like you who blatantly lie about such things.Now you are claiming there is no 14th amendment..and it was never ratified.


    You can't re-write history or laws to suit what you would like to be history and law.


    What you can do is try to amend the amendment and change the law if you dislike it so much.


    That's all there is to it...you are lying and I am proving that you are lying.


    I get nothing out of it other than to set the record straight by posting the record.


    It's just like....Paul Revere was not a courier...did not ring bells and fire shots on his route from Boston to Lexington to warn the Resistance that the British were coming.


    He was on a stealth mission...it was not his intent to draw attention to himself.It was not his intent to warn the British that we were going to put up a fight and not let them take our guns.


    You teabaggers make fools of yourselves when you say stoopid (<--- spelled incorrectly on purpose) things like this.


    BTW...Sarah had no excuse for her idiocy....she had just had just attended a tour in Boston on Beacon Hill where the tour guide instructed everyone on the facts of Paul Revere's historical ride.


    She obviously wasn't listening...or she has a severe handicap when it comes to comprehension.Yet she claims the reporter slipped a "Gotcha" question in just to trip her up.


    No....She just doesn't know what the fuck she is talking about half of the time.


    Just like the nut job trying to get everyone to believe there is no 14th amendment.




    RR™






    • Location: rationalreaper™
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    Two walls arguing with themselves. 20 minutes later, RR adds this and reposts it in the morning after it was flagged off. A slightly more unique post post from RR.

    Here is the order in which the 14th amendment was ratified (rationalreaper™)

    Date: 2011-06-18, 11:34PM EDT
    Reply to: comm-yt7dj-2449171026@craigslist.org [Errors when replying to ads?]






    The entire Us Constitution with all of it's articles and amentments...in it's complete entirety...can be found right here http://www.constitutionus.com






    The fourteenth amendment to the Constitution of the United States was proposed to the legislatures of the several States by the Thirty-ninth Congress, on the 13th of June, 1866. It was declared, in a certificate of the Secretary of State dated July 28, 1868 to have been ratified by the legislatures of 28 of the 37 States. The dates of ratification were: Connecticut, June 25, 1866; New Hampshire, July 6, 1866; Tennessee, July 19, 1866; New Jersey, September 11, 1866 (subsequently the legislature rescinded its ratification, and on March 24, 1868, readopted its resolution of rescission over the Governor's veto, and on Nov. 12, 1980, expressed support for the amendment); Oregon, September 19, 1866 (and rescinded its ratification on October 15, 1868); Vermont, October 30, 1866; Ohio, January 4, 1867 (and rescinded its ratification on January 15, 1868); New York, January 10, 1867; Kansas, January 11, 1867; Illinois, January 15, 1867; West Virginia, January 16, 1867; Michigan, January 16, 1867; Minnesota, January 16, 1867; Maine, January 19, 1867; Nevada, January 22, 1867; Indiana, January 23, 1867; Missouri, January 25, 1867; Rhode Island, February 7, 1867; Wisconsin, February 7, 1867; Pennsylvania, February 12, 1867; Massachusetts, March 20, 1867; Nebraska, June 15, 1867; Iowa, March 16, 1868; Arkansas, April 6, 1868; Florida, June 9, 1868; North Carolina, July 4, 1868 (after having rejected it on December 14, 1866); Louisiana, July 9, 1868 (after having rejected it on February 6, 1867); South Carolina, July 9, 1868 (after having rejected it on December 20, 1866).


    Ratification was completed on July 9, 1868.


    The amendment was subsequently ratified by Alabama, July 13, 1868; Georgia, July 21, 1868 (after having rejected it on November 9, 1866); Virginia, October 8, 1869 (after having rejected it on January 9, 1867); Mississippi, January 17, 1870; Texas, February 18, 1870 (after having rejected it on October 27, 1866); Delaware, February 12, 1901 (after having rejected it on February 8, 1867); Maryland, April 4, 1959 (after having rejected it on March 23, 1867); California, May 6, 1959; Kentucky, March 18, 1976 (after having rejected it on January 8, 1867). amendment 14








    You're welcome


    I could sense your feeling of relief and the burden of having to carry such a heavy lie on your shoulders being lifted.


    RR™

    rationalreaper™ LMAO!! Others KNOW Ur GAME!! (OTHERS DELETING Ur POST!! LOL!!!!!!!!)


    Date: 2011-06-19, 1:29PM EDT
    Reply to: comm-nq6yg-2449775899@craigslist.org [Errors when replying to ads?]



    Dear rationalreaper™ ;


    The People KNOW You Are Full Of Shit and Others Are Deleting Your Postings!! LMAO!! Too Freakin Funny!!


    I could give a damn whether your postings are there or not. Matter of Fact, I post yours with mine at times. I have NOTHING to Hide but to Expose You for who you are. You See, I trust in the American People to fight off Communism and the Likes of You.


    Thank you ALL for your emails and Your Support. The Links have been hitting heavy from this site and this guy has NO IDEA what kind of Attention he is bring to the Scam of the 14th amendment. We Have More hits today than all of Last week alone. We Continue to Educate the Masses!! Thank You All, Once Again!!




    • Location: OTHERS DELETING Ur POST!! LOL!!!!!!!!
    • it's NOT ok to contact this poster with services or other commercial interests
    PostingID: 2449775899
    Furthermore:

    re; reaping the rational thought of man! (Where is the Republic?)


    Date: 2011-06-19, 4:19PM EDT
    Reply to: comm-4tsnz-2450047956@craigslist.org [Errors when replying to ads?]



    I pledge alligiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the REPUBLIC for which it STANDS! Hey rationreaper where is this Republic and what placed it under the feet of Demo cracy? Forget your quibble with paclaw and answer my question! Was it the 1930 UNITED STATES OF AMERICA Bankruptcy Act ? Where is the REPUBLIC and WHEN was it replaced! If you can not answer this question you will be exposed as a traitor to the Constitution of the Republic! If you do not address this question you will be exposed as a traitor to the Republic! I Am not affiliated with Paclaw I Am in my Fathers House seeking your light that you claim is in the Fathers House! Show Me the Light of Truth of where the Republic is! Rational Reaper what are the spirits within your moniker? With all that rational you should easily be able to tell me where is the Republic?


    • Location: Where is the Republic?
    • it's NOT ok to contact this poster with services or other commercial interests
    PostingID: 2450047956

    Yeah, I don't think so. How can you claim that you have more hits if you're not affiliated with PACinlaw? That's just retarded.



    A Republic?Democracy? or Pandoras Box? (rationalreaper™)


    Date: 2011-06-19, 5:34PM EDT
    Reply to: see below [Errors when replying to ads?]



    First off...don't demand that I answer this question as if you've been badgering me to answer it.This is the 1st time you've brought it up.


    Personally...I think we are neither a Republic nor a Democracy at this stage of our existance or in the true sense of meaning of either word..A Repubublic is a charter that governs the majority...a Democracy is a majority rules based government. And while we do have elections based upon a majority outcome....seldom do the people see what the majority has voted on,ever take effect as law.


    In that sense...we are more of a Republic in that a small charter of wealthy individuals and corporatists who use brokers(Lobbyists) to purchase the law they desire...whereas by definition A Democracy would have laws and governance based upon the will of the majority.


    The Pledge of Allegiance was a poem witten by a " Socialist Baptist Minister "....so even though I myself and my children have been raised Pledging Allegiance to our flag........politically it has no merit.
    It is nothing more than a way to recite aloud our love and patriotism for our country.


    Below you will read a bit about the author of the Pedge of allegiance.


    That is as far as I am willing to go in discussing this matter that has been an ongoing argument for a couple of hundred years.


    RR™

    Francis Bellamy (1855 - 1931), a Baptist minister, wrote the original Pledge in August 1892. He was a Christian Socialist. In his Pledge, he is expressing the ideas of his first cousin, Edward Bellamy, author of the American socialist utopian novels, Looking Backward (1888) and Equality (1897).

    Francis Bellamy in his sermons and lectures and Edward Bellamy in his novels and articles described in detail how the middle class could create a planned economy with political, social and economic equality for all. The government would run a peace time economy similar to our present military industrial complex.

    The Pledge was published in the September 8th issue of The Youth's Companion, the leading family magazine and the Reader's Digest of its day. Its owner and editor, Daniel Ford, had hired Francis in 1891 as his assistant when Francis was pressured into leaving his baptist church in Boston because of his socialist sermons. As a member of his congregation, Ford had enjoyed Francis's sermons. Ford later founded the liberal and often controversial Ford Hall Forum, located in downtown Boston.

    In 1892 Francis Bellamy was also a chairman of a committee of state superintendents of education in the National Education Association. As its chairman, he prepared the program for the public schools' quadricentennial celebration for Columbus Day in 1892. He structured this public school program around a flag raising ceremony and a flag salute - his 'Pledge of Allegiance.'

    His original Pledge read as follows: 'I pledge allegiance to my Flag and (to*) the Republic for which it stands, one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.' He considered placing the word, 'equality,' in his Pledge, but knew that the state superintendents of education on his committee were against equality for women and African Americans. [ * 'to' added in October, 1892. ]

    Dr. Mortimer Adler, American philosopher and last living founder of the Great Books program at Saint John's College, has analyzed these ideas in his book, The Six Great Ideas. He argues that the three great ideas of the American political tradition are 'equality, liberty and justice for all.' 'Justice' mediates between the often conflicting goals of 'liberty' and 'equality.'

    In 1923 and 1924 the National Flag Conference, under the 'leadership of the American Legion and the Daughters of the American Revolution, changed the Pledge's words, 'my Flag,' to 'the Flag of the United States of America.' Bellamy disliked this change, but his protest was ignored.

    In 1954, Congress after a campaign by the Knights of Columbus, added the words, 'under God,' to the Pledge. The Pledge was now both a patriotic oath and a public prayer.

    Bellamy's granddaughter said he also would have resented this second change. He had been pressured into leaving his church in 1891 because of his socialist sermons. In his retirement in Florida, he stopped attending church because he disliked the racial bigotry he found there.

    What follows is Bellamy's own account of some of the thoughts that went through his mind in August, 1892, as he picked the words of his Pledge:

    It began as an intensive communing with salient points of our national history, from the Declaration of Independence onwards; with the makings of the Constitution...with the meaning of the Civil War; with the aspiration of the people...

    The true reason for allegiance to the Flag is the 'republic for which it stands.' ...And what does that vast thing, the Republic mean? It is the concise political word for the Nation - the One Nation which the Civil War was fought to prove. To make that One Nation idea clear, we must specify that it is indivisible, as Webster and Lincoln used to repeat in their great speeches. And its future?

    Just here arose the temptation of the historic slogan of the French Revolution which meant so much to Jefferson and his friends, 'Liberty, equality, fraternity.' No, that would be too fanciful, too many thousands of years off in realization. But we as a nation do stand square on the doctrine of liberty and justice for all...

    If the Pledge's historical pattern repeats, its words will be modified during this decade. Below are two possible changes.

    Some prolife advocates recite the following slightly revised Pledge: 'I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all, born and unborn.'

    A few liberals recite a slightly revised version of Bellamy's original Pledge: 'I pledge allegiance to my Flag, and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation, indivisible, with equality, liberty and justice for all.'

    • Location: rationalreaper™



  • it's NOT ok to contact this poster with services or other commercial interests





  • PostingID: 2450160719

    re; oh yeah you forgot to answer the Question! (Where is the Republic & when did it go?)


    Date: 2011-06-19, 5:44PM EDT
    Reply to: comm-rnjkz-2450174615@craigslist.org [Errors when replying to ads?]



    Someones running from the Light and won't answer the question!


    • Location: Where is the Republic & when did it go?
    • it's NOT ok to contact this poster with services or other commercial interests
    PostingID: 2450174615

    So you don't know where the Republic went Aye! (Where is Common Constitutional Law?)


    Date: 2011-06-19, 7:57PM EDT
    Reply to: comm-jnztt-2450358006@craigslist.org [Errors when replying to ads?]



    Nice try wise guy, you skirted the issue fairly well. The pledge of alligiance is irrelavent, we used to be a Republic governed under COMMON Constitutional law! When did the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA move to English jurisprudence law where the headquarters of the Bar Association is in England! Where is the REPUBLIC?


    • Location: Where is Common Constitutional Law?
    • it's NOT ok to contact this poster with services or other commercial interests
    PostingID: 2450358006
    Lame conspiracy theory.

    Being as I am not a scholar of the United States Constitution (rationalreaper™)


    Date: 2011-06-19, 10:24PM EDT
    Reply to: see below [Errors when replying to ads?]



    It is my understanding that the term " Republic" was used by most southern states and a few northern states...NH,Ma,RI...maybe NY(?) as a way to declare states rights and sovereignty/autonomy in order to prevent Federal Mandates and laws from becoming the last word in law and thus taking control over all states laws from criminal to commerce to corporate litigation to civil action.


    The battle for these rights continues to this day.


    Having just given a more than cursory look just now into our constitution and have not found in the framework or body of the text of the constitution declaring the United States a Republic. But then...I'm not saying it is not in there...I just didn't see it if it is....have a difficult time with my bifocals.


    That said...I did not do an in depth scouring of the constitution either.


    I've also read a few articles from right and left wing historians...and it appears that it is really a "States Rights" issue. Which I happen to agree with to a certain extent.


    I managed to get myself pissed off by reading some words by Winston Churchill....A British Citizen claiming America was a Republic.
    To that I say.....what gives Churchill or any other foreigner the right to describe our government or to try to shape the politics of our government?


    I am always amazed that after fighting to cut our ties from the British Empire, to gain our Liberty,Freedom,sovereignty and autonomy as our own nation.....we have still allowed the Brits to shape our laws.


    (off topic) And we all know that the British Empire spread itself way too thin and is now only a fraction of it's former self as a global power.....and here we are...doing the exact same things that have crumbled every empire throughout history.


    (now back to topic)


    I'd say the Republic has not gone anywhere although it is misused quite often. Democracy?...if one can call our general elections a Democracy....that too is misused.


    There are obvious overlapping factors of both types of government in this nation....but for the most part....neither really does anything to promote a government " Of the People, For the People and By the People ".


    It most certainly will take more than a few bi-partisans with PHDs in Constitutional law to set this conversation going in the correct direction.


    I do not come anywhere near to qualifying as having enough knowledge to take on such a serious debate. I have my concepts and Ideas as to what things in the constitution mean....but when 5 supreme court justices can claim that a corporation is the same as a private citizen....well maybe my anger gets in the way of having a productive , unbiased, discussion on such matters as these.


    Perhaps due to the individuality of free thinking people and the brainwashed lock step partisan participants....issues such as this one may never come to a satisfactory conclusion that can be agreed upon by all or most.


    I like the idea of being a Republic and a Democracy. They say you can't have both....I say for appearances sake....politics has tried to give the impression that we have both.


    Whatever it is that we do have.....It began to fail around 1957....IMHO.


    RR™


    • Location: rationalreaper™
    • it's NOT ok to contact this poster with services or other commercial interests
    PostingID: 2450550463
    Good God, RR. Don't put that much effort into this!

    BOSTON CL HAS BEEN INFECTED BY A COWARDLY FLAGGOT INFECTION (BY A FLAG QUEEN WHOSE UNCLE GAVE HIM TOO)


    Date: 2011-06-20, 12:19PM EDT
    Reply to: comm-shm4m-2451388971@craigslist.org [Errors when replying to ads?]





    MANY BATHS AS A YOUNGSTER. THIS IS HIS WAY OF GETTING BACK AT THE WORLD. HE MASTURBATES WHILE HE FLAGS. FALLS ASLEEP AND THEN NEW POSTS STAY ON FOR A LITTLE WHILE TIL HE WAKES UP AND THE WHOLE CYCLE STARTS AGAIN.


    • Location: BY A FLAG QUEEN WHOSE UNCLE GAVE HIM TOO
    • it's NOT ok to contact this poster with services or other commercial interests
    PostingID: 2451388971
    lol.

    RE; Why would someone flag this neutral post? (rationalreaper™) (The States are Republics)


    Date: 2011-06-20, 11:15PM EDT
    Reply to: comm-qqjp2-2452858789@craigslist.org [Errors when replying to ads?]



    The States are Republics


    Alexander Hamilton, the main architect of the Constitution for the United States of America, set forth in Federalist Paper number 9 that  all the states are republics in the United States federation;


    "As this Government is composed of small republics, it enjoys the internal happiness of each." 


    These several republics have their own nationality and citizenship; but they have been interfered with by the United States and its 14th Amendment and legislation. The subversive system operates off something called cooperative federalism. There are other words for this that obfuscate the actual political plan: the common one being termed Democracy". The blueprint for its operation was drafted by Karl Marx.


    The 14th Amendment created a De facto system
    Having an altternate political system creates if not a new, but alternate, governmental system. Due to that fact that a new "political body" was created by the "national" or "federal" citizenship, the governmental system under the 14th Amendment is "de facto". To create a whole new system, a different constitution would have had to been installed.


    To help delineate the difference between a Republic Form of Government" in contrast to what a what a Democracy" is the Federalist Papers. The Federalist Papers were written and published during the years 1787 and 1788 in several New York State newspapers as public notice in order to persuade New York voters to buy into the proposed constitution. The primary authors were Alexander Hamilton and James Madison with help from John Jay. In total, the Federalist Papers contains 85 essays outlining how this "new government" would operate and why this type of government was the best choice for The Untied States of America. All of the essays were signed "PUBLIUS" and the actual authors of some are under dispute, but the general consensus is that Hamilton wrote 52, Madison wrote 28, and Jay contributed the remaining 5. Moreover, to help delineate the differences between a Republic Form of Government from a Democracy, definitions from Bouvier's Law Dictionary, 1856, will also be reference within the links below. This particular legal reference is utilized as it is more pure in definitional nature. Through research, it can be seen that current dictionaries have been altered -to a point- and also somewhat vague in their definitions. On its face, these issues appear to serve as evidence of a plot, or conspiracy.


    In reference thereof , that the author of the Federalist Papers, especially Alexander Hamilton, were staunch elitist, as were all "Federalist". Accordingly to understand the philosophy of a Republic Form of Government as compared to a so-called Democracy, one must turn to the Federalist Papers as a primary source of reference. These papers show the intent of the rulers and their plans to form a "central government" for the American union under the Constitution for the Untied State of America.


    It should be noted that currently we do not have a pure representative democracy (republican government). This is due to a breach of parameters which had been set forth in the Federalist Papers of which purview through the Constitution for the United States of America.




    Research and References;


    Republic vs. Democracy
    http://www.pacinlaw.org/republic/


    The Origin of Sovereign Citizen
    http://www.pacinlaw.org/pdf/Origin_Sovereign_Citizens.php


    Law Of Persons
    http://www.pacinlaw.org/pdf/law/Sohms_Law_of_Persons.php






    Other Helpful Links
    Some Questions: http://www.pacinlaw.org/questions
    Citizen Legal Fiction: http://www.pacinlaw.org/citizen
    Dual System of Law: http://www.pacinlaw.org/dual
    Historical Error: http://www.pacinlaw.org/error
    Deprogramming http://www.deprogram.us/deprogramming/
    Island Makers http://www.islandmakers.us/demons
    PAC Tour http://www.pacinlaw.org/tour/
    ___________________________________________________________________________________________ Why would someone flag this neutral post? (rationalreaper™) Date: 2011-06-20, 10:16AM EDT Being that I am not a Constitutional Scholar...I can only offer my interpretation of what I think has happened. It is my understanding that the term " Republic" was used by most southern states and a few northern states...NH,Ma,RI...maybe NY(?) as a way to declare states rights and sovereignty/autonomy in order to prevent Federal Mandates and laws from becoming the last word in law and thus taking control over all states laws from criminal to commerce to corporate litigation to civil action. The battle for these rights continues to this day. Having just given a more than cursory look just now into our constitution and have not found in the framework or body of the text of the constitution declaring the United States a Republic. But then...I'm not saying it is not in there...I just didn't see it if it is....have a difficult time with my bifocals. That said...I did not do an in depth scouring of the constitution either. I've also read a few articles from right and left wing historians...and it appears that it is really a "States Rights" issue. Which I happen to agree with to a certain extent. I managed to get myself pissed off by reading some words by Winston Churchill....A British Citizen claiming America was a Republic. To that I say.....what gives Churchill or any other foreigner the right to describe our government or to try to shape the politics of our government?  I am always amazed that after fighting to cut our ties from the British Empire, to gain our Liberty,Freedom,sovereignty and autonomy as our own nation.....we have still allowed the Brits to shape our laws. (off topic) And we all know that the British Empire spread itself way too thin and is now only a fraction of it's former self as a global power.....and here we are...doing the exact same things that have crumbled every empire throughout history. (now back to topic) I'd say the Republic has not gone anywhere although it is misused quite often. Democracy?...if one can call our general elections a Democracy....that too is misused. There are obvious overlapping factors of both types of government in this nation....but for the most part....neither really does anything to promote a government " Of the People, For the People and By the People ". It most certainly will take more than a few bi-partisans with PHDs in Constitutional law to set this conversation going in the correct direction. I do not come anywhere near to qualifying as having enough knowledge to take on such a serious debate. I have my concepts and Ideas as to what things in the constitution mean....but when 5 supreme court justices can claim that a corporation is the same as a private citizen....well maybe my anger gets in the way of having a productive , unbiased, discussion on such matters as these. Perhaps due to the individuality of free thinking people and the brainwashed lock step partisan participants....issues such as this one may never come to a satisfactory conclusion that can be agreed upon by all or most. I like the idea of being a Republic and a Democracy. They say you can't have both....I say for appearances sake....politics has tried to give the impression that we have both. Whatever it is that we do have.....It began to fail around 1957....IMHO. RR™


    • Location: The States are Republics
    • it's NOT ok to contact this poster with services or other commercial interests


    PostingID: 2452858789

    I have nothing to do with the post below.

    through the process of elimination the flagger is the guy who is (arguing with the rational reaper)


    Date: 2011-06-20, 11:48PM EDT
    Reply to: comm-yc72q-2452897188@craigslist.org [Errors when replying to ads?]



    The 14th amendment dude. Everytime he comes on FLAG HIM! the punk


    • Location: arguing with the rational reaper
    • it's NOT ok to contact this poster with services or other commercial interests
    PostingID: 2452897188
    Though to be honest, I have been flagging Ron Paul posts. It's good to know that it has paid off.

    So,you don't like Ron Paul ....FLAGGER!


    Date: 2011-06-21, 12:16PM EDT
    Reply to: comm-9jbfd-2453617793@craigslist.org [Errors when replying to ads?]



    You have a guilty conscience FLAGGER!


    • it's NOT ok to contact this poster with services or other commercial interests
    PostingID: 2453617793

    REPUBLIC BROADCAST RADIO, NET (Because YOU CAN HANDLE THE TRUTH!!)


    Date: 2011-06-21, 1:06PM EDT
    Reply to: comm-xryky-2453749962@craigslist.org [Errors when replying to ads?]



    "REPUBLIC" BROADCAST NETWORK!!! Because YOU CAN HANDLE THE TRUTH!!
    http://republicbroadcasting.org:80/


    We would like to see you aboard to learn.Also, we are looking for educators to join us. If you can and are able to assist others in learning, please contact us.


    http://www.pacinlaw.org/tour/ http://www.notmygovernment.us/home/ http://www.pacinlaw.org/faq/ Our (Your) Book http://www.redamendment.net/home/


    The system of government in Place is not a system of self government by choice which is based on local community. Ultimately "collectivism" is used as a tool by the elite to control you and steal your heritage.


    http://republicbroadcasting.org:80/






    • Location: Because YOU CAN HANDLE THE TRUTH!!
    • it's NOT ok to contact this poster with services or other commercial interests
    PostingID: 2453749962

    RE; Why would someone flag this neutral post? (rationalreaper™) (The States are Republics)


    Date: 2011-06-21, 1:40PM EDT
    Reply to: comm-ngx6r-2453841844@craigslist.org [Errors when replying to ads?]



    FIRST, Thank You For All Your Emails! I have answered some and I will get back to each and everyone of you! Meanwhile Continue to Visit the Web Site below!! Please feel free to go PAC's Forum with any questions you may have! http://www.notmygovernment.us/forum/




    The States are Republics


    Alexander Hamilton, the main architect of the Constitution for the United States of America, set forth in Federalist Paper number 9 that all the states are republics in the United States federation;


    "As this Government is composed of small republics, it enjoys the internal happiness of each." 


    These several republics have their own nationality and citizenship; but they have been interfered with by the United States and its 14th Amendment and legislation. The subversive system operates off something calledcooperative federalism. There are other words for this that obfuscate the actual political plan: the common one being termed Democracy". The blueprint for its operation was drafted by Karl Marx.


    The 14th Amendment created a De facto system
    Having an altternate political system creates if not a new, but alternate, governmental system. Due to that fact that a new "political body" was created by the "national" or "federal" citizenship, the governmental system under the 14th Amendment is "de facto". To create a whole new system, a different constitution would have had to been installed.


    To help delineate the difference between a Republic Form of Government" in contrast to what a what a Democracy" is the Federalist Papers. The Federalist Papers were written and published during the years 1787 and 1788 in several New York State newspapers as public notice in order to persuade New York voters to buy into the proposed constitution. The primary authors were Alexander Hamilton and James Madison with help from John Jay. In total, the Federalist Papers contains 85 essays outlining how this "new government" would operate and why this type of government was the best choice for The Untied States of America. All of the essays were signed "PUBLIUS" and the actual authors of some are under dispute, but the general consensus is that Hamilton wrote 52, Madison wrote 28, and Jay contributed the remaining 5. Moreover, to help delineate the differences between a Republic Form of Government from a Democracy, definitions from Bouvier's Law Dictionary, 1856, will also be reference within the links below. This particular legal reference is utilized as it is more pure in definitional nature. Through research, it can be seen that current dictionaries have been altered -to a point- and also somewhat vague in their definitions. On its face, these issues appear to serve as evidence of a plot, or conspiracy.


    In reference thereof , that the author of the Federalist Papers, especially Alexander Hamilton, were staunch elitist, as were all "Federalist". Accordingly to understand the philosophy of a Republic Form of Government as compared to a so-called Democracy, one must turn to the Federalist Papers as a primary source of reference. These papers show the intent of the rulers and their plans to form a "central government" for the American union under the Constitution for the Untied State of America.


    It should be noted that currently we do not have a pure representative democracy (republican government). This is due to a breach of parameters which had been set forth in the Federalist Papers of which purview through the Constitution for the United States of America.




    Research
    Republic vs. Democracy
    http://www.pacinlaw.org/republic/


    The Origin of Sovereign Citizen
    http://www.pacinlaw.org/pdf/Origin_Sovereign_Citizens.php_
    • Location: The States are Republics
    • it's NOT ok to contact this poster with services or other commercial interests
    PostingID: 2453841844
    I'm pretty sure I have countered the misuse of Founding Father quotes before.

    Below: RJ wisens up and tries to deflect negative attention.


    RE; I disagree with the rational reaper (DUMB ASS) ((YOUR ONE In THE SAME PERSON! Jack Ass!)


    Date: 2011-06-21, 4:59PM EDT
    Reply to: comm-yddue-2454334166@craigslist.org [Errors when replying to ads?]



    Psychopaths and Narcissists Thrive on Attention, and will create drama just to be in the middle of it, and attempt to misdirect others off their sickness. 


    "HEY", That Sounds Like a AGENT PROVATEUR


    Your Sick rational reaper, Nice Try Sick-O. You Should see a Doctor for your Sickness. You're CraigsList Very Own AGENT PROVOCATEUR!!
    Are You New At this Agent Provocateur thing, Because you Suck at it, and For Sake Of Arguement rationalreaper TM(LOL)( AGENT PROVOCATEUR!!) The Post I am Referring to is Posted below under ALL those PACINLAW.org Links below.




    DIVIDE AND CONQUER, VIA GREED // Indoctrination, Control, Fear, Threats
    http://www.pacinlaw.org/pdf/Divide_and_Conquer.pdf PacIn Law




    To explain: Due to the actions of these greedy gurus causes a divide and conquer result.


    DIVIDE AND CONQUER, VIA GREED // Indoctrination, Control, Fear, Threats
    http://www.pacinlaw.org/pdf/Divide_and_Conquer.pdf PacIn Law


    http://www.pacinlaw.org/fourteenth/part_0.php


    A mojority of the people of the Unites States have lived all their lives under EMERGENCY RULE . . . .


    http://www.pacinlaw.org/fourteenth/part_1.php


    Are You Treasonist? Treason by Design.
    http://www.pacinlaw.org/pdf/Treason_by_Design.pdf


    Republic vs. Democracy
    http://www.pacinlaw.org/republic/


    The Origin of Sovereign Citizen
    http://www.pacinlaw.org/pdf/Origin_Sovereign_Citizens.php


    Law Of Persons
    http://www.pacinlaw.org/pdf/law/Sohms_Law_of_Persons.php






    Other Helpful Links
    Some Questions: http://www.pacinlaw.org/questions
    Citizen Legal Fiction: http://www.pacinlaw.org/citizen
    Dual System of Law: http://www.pacinlaw.org/dual
    Historical Error: http://www.pacinlaw.org/error
    Deprogramming http://www.deprogram.us/deprogramming/
    Island Makers http://www.islandmakers.us/demons
    PAC Tour http://www.pacinlaw.org/tour/




    _____________________________________________________________________________


    I disagree with the rational reaper but I would never flag his post (I'm against jobstealing wetbacks)


    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Date: 2011-06-21, 4:01PM EDT
    Reply to: comm-prreu-2454199023[Errors when replying to ads?]
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------




    I posted the post calling him a knucklehead for having his own trademark which has been up for days. All my other posts have been flagged. I know for a fact that one flagger is the 14th amendment dude and their are many other pussies that flag liberal and conservative because they can't stand LOSING an argument like a sissy. I might not like what someone's say's but I will fight like a motherfucker for their right to say it SO PUSSY FLAGGERS, MAN UP if you can and let people with opposing opinions post. Only bolsheviks want one opinion.




    Location: I'm against jobstealing wetbacks
    • Location: (YOUR ONE In THE SAME PERSON! Jack Ass!
    • it's NOT ok to contact this poster with services or other commercial interests
    PostingID: 2454334166


    AGENT PROVATEUR Deleting THEIR Own Post and Pointing Fingers (Typical Agenda!)

    Date: 2011-06-21, 8:08PM EDT
    Reply to: comm-tyerj-2454715897@craigslist.org [Errors when replying to ads?]



    AGENT PROVATEURS ("the rationalreaper™") Deleting THEIR Own Post and Pointing Fingers I also suspect CraigList themselves, from within, in the assistance of Ghosting and Deleting Blogs.


    Isn't it just odd how our own Agent Provateur, ("the rationalreaper™") came around to find everyone's postings being deleted a he/she points the finger at PACINLAW for Deleting them. Can you understand how they operate now!!


    Read About AGENT PROVATEUR's here; http://www.pacinlaw.org/pdf/Agent_Provocateur.php


    I personally don't care if their post is there or not. It actually makes it easy for People to diferenchate between their LIES and what PACINLAW is attempting to do by Re-Educating the Masses from being dumb down by Governmental Run Media and the Public Fool (school) System.


    The AGENT PROVATEUR's at the beginning of their Deletion are very selective to exactly what Postings they delete. Typically, they start from the Most Damaging post to their Illegitimate Government to the Least Damaging. Their FEAR is that the MASSES (You and your Family!) actually become Educated to the inner workings of their Corruption to continue their enslavement of the American People. For if the American People actually tasted what Freedom, Liberty and Due Process are, they would loose the CONTROL over the American People (COMMUNISM).


    For Your Continued Education, please see links below and Thank You All For Your Emails and Log On to http://www.PacInLaw.org


    DIVIDE AND CONQUER, VIA GREED // Indoctrination, Control, Fear, Threats
    http://www.pacinlaw.org/pdf/Divide_and_Conquer.pdf PacIn Law


    http://www.pacinlaw.org/fourteenth/part_0.php


    A majority of the people of the Unites States have lived all their lives under EMERGENCY RULE . . . . and have NO Idea What Freedom Is! You Don't Know Because it hasn't been taste. The question is; WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO ABOUT IT?


    http://www.pacinlaw.org/fourteenth/part_1.php


    Are You Treasonist? Treason by Design.
    http://www.pacinlaw.org/pdf/Treason_by_Design.pdf


    Republic vs. Democracy
    http://www.pacinlaw.org/republic/


    The Origin of Sovereign Citizen
    http://www.pacinlaw.org/pdf/Origin_Sovereign_Citizens.php


    Law Of Persons
    http://www.pacinlaw.org/pdf/law/Sohms_Law_of_Persons.php


    Other Helpful Links
    Some Questions: http://www.pacinlaw.org/questions
    Citizen Legal Fiction: http://www.pacinlaw.org/citizen
    Dual System of Law: http://www.pacinlaw.org/dual
    Historical Error: http://www.pacinlaw.org/error
    Deprogramming http://www.deprogram.us/deprogramming/
    Island Makers http://www.islandmakers.us/demons
    PAC Tour http://www.pacinlaw.org/tour/




    • Location: Typical Agenda!
    • it's NOT ok to contact this poster with services or other commercial interests
    PostingID: 2454715897
    This post is the last post I have until the politics section ghosted itself over, Wed. Jun. 23rd 2011. I have two theories on how this happened:

    1. Too many people were flagging simultaneously
    2. CL staff finally acted on my many complaints.
    Even today, bos /pol/ still looks like a smoldering crater of it's former glory.

    RJ has moved onto other /pol/s like D.C. and Oklahoma. Personally, I'm not worried. He cannot go far -- I can hunt him down with this handy little search tool: site:craigslist.org "pacinlaw"

    Here's a straggler from the ghosting spree:

    CRAIGLIST "GHOSTING" Postings


    Date: 2011-06-23, 7:31PM EDT
    Reply to: see below [Errors when replying to ads?]


    Jun 23 - re Every deported illegal creates a job - (When Is The GOP Going To Create Jobs?)

    Jun 18 - What's the deal with that 14th Amendment conspiracy nut? - (Hey RationalReaper)

    Jun 17 - Council candidate seeking volunteers - (City of Revere) pic

    sort by most recent best match
    Found: 37 Displaying: 1 - 37 (taken from the opening page of Politics) http://boston.craigslist.org/search/pol?query=+
    NOTICE ABOVE HOW IT SAYS 1-37? 
    CRAIGLIST IS GHOSTING Any POSTING That Exposes This Communist Government. CRAIGSLIST Is Guilty Of Treason and Part Of Our Problem. Please Note Who The Traitors Are. There will be a Time were they will brought before the Proper and LAWFUL Judicial Courts For TREASON
    There should be 36 more posting showing here, except they are being blocked from being seen.
    They Expose this Illegitimate Government as a FRAUD.

    • it's NOT ok to contact this poster with services or other commercial interests
    PostingID: 2458870617
    U MAD

    A reposting that was quickly flagged off:

    Craigslist working for COMMUNISM (CraigsList and rational reaper, all AGEN)


    Date: 2011-06-23, 8:45PM EDT
    Reply to: see below [Errors when replying to ads?]


    CraigsList and rational reaper, all AGENT PROVATEUR'S (Craigslist working for COMMUNISM)

    I disagree with the rational reaper ( he works for Craiglist for COMMUNIST EXPANSION)

    -------------------------------
    Psychopaths and Narcissists Thrive on Attention, and will create drama just to be in the middle of it, and attempt to misdirect others off from their sickness.

    "HEY", That Sounds Just Like a AGENT PROVATEUR

    Your Sick rationalreaper, Nice Try, Sick-O. You Should see a Doctor for your Sickness. You're CraigsList Very Own AGENT PROVOCATEUR!!
    Are You New At this Agent Provocateur thing, Because you Stink at it, and For Sake Of Arguement rationalreaper TM(LOL)( AGENT PROVOCATEUR!!) The Post I am Referring to is Posted below under ALL those PACINLAW.org Links just below.

    DIVIDE AND CONQUER, VIA GREED // Indoctrination, Control, Fear, Threats
    http://www.pacinlaw.org/pdf/Divide_and_Conquer.pdf PacIn Law

    To explain: Due to the actions of these greedy gurus causes a divide and conquer result.

    http://www.pacinlaw.org/fourteenth/part_0.php

    A mojority of the people of the Unites States have lived all their lives under EMERGENCY RULE . . . .

    http://www.pacinlaw.org/fourteenth/part_1.php

    Are You Treasonist? Treason by Design.
    http://www.pacinlaw.org/pdf/Treason_by_Design.pdf

    Republic vs. Democracy
    http://www.pacinlaw.org/republic/

    The Origin of Sovereign Citizen
    http://www.pacinlaw.org/pdf/Origin_Sovereign_Citizens.php

    Law Of Persons
    http://www.pacinlaw.org/pdf/law/Sohms_Law_of_Persons.php

    Other Helpful Links
    Some Questions: http://www.pacinlaw.org/questions
    Citizen Legal Fiction: http://www.pacinlaw.org/citizen
    Dual System of Law: http://www.pacinlaw.org/dual
    Historical Error: http://www.pacinlaw.org/error
    Deprogramming http://www.deprogram.us/deprogramming/
    Island Makers http://www.islandmakers.us/demons
    PAC Tour http://www.pacinlaw.org/tour/

    CraigsList and rational reaper, all AGENT PROVATEUR'S (Craigslist working for COMMUNISM)

    I disagree with the rational reaper ( he works for Craiglist for COMMUNIST EXPANSION)

    • Location: CraigsList and rational reaper, all AGEN
    • it's NOT ok to contact this poster with services or other commercial interests
    PostingID: 2458988738

    Seeing that I've only posted on this board (rationalreaper™)


    Date: 2011-06-23, 9:47PM EDT
    Reply to: see below [Errors when replying to ads?]


    about 5 or 6 times in a year and i'm getting all of this attention.I must be a threat to the Koch Bros and Dick Armeys' agenda of eliminating the middle class entirely and turning America into a Fascist Corporatist Plutocracy....which eventually will turn into flull blown communism if these people succeed.

    I'm just here to counter the lies being posted by the lunatic Libertarian Teabagging Republicans.

    Most of my postings are on the Washington DC Politics board...I run into the same crap over there too.

    I must really be a thorn in their sides.....Just think if more Americans who love Freedom and Liberty stood up and countered these lies.....we could wipe out their influence fairly quickly.

    You see.....I know that the Boston area is predominately A Liberal Progressive voter base.So for so many anti- liberal posts dominating this particular politics board....I have no doubt they are from one or two paid shills.

    I'll stop in from time to time to keep you honest...and I call upon other freedom loving Americans to stand up and fight against these lying shills by posting the true facts.

    RR™

    Otherwise....I'll mostly be on the DC board.

    PS....I believe in freedom of speech....so I don't delete legitimate,adult messages as long as it's about politics.....and as long as it's not overposted as spam.....say what you will.I'm ok with it.....just stick to the topic that the forum is about and don't flood the entire page with BS overposting....and I won't flag you

    • Location: rationalreaper™
    • it's NOT ok to contact this poster with services or other commercial interests
    PostingID: 2459078045
    And my knight in shining armor rides off into the distance. Thank you RationalReaper for relieving my burden.

    Now I have no excuse for not finishing my Content Audit on Historical Error.