I have been a State National since '06, living in the Republic of Mass ever since.2194297152 Feb 02 11 04:30:44 PM bos politics Hey PACINLAW
I'm thinking of moving, because the State National population here is too small for my tastes. I'm thinking of someplace warm like Georgia or Florida, but I don't want to associate myself with fat white trash. I'm a very particular man, into fashion and kind of a socialite. Where should I move?
How much did you pay to become a Sovereign Citizen? I was talking with some guy who offers redemption services and I'm trying to find a smart buy here.
Help a brotha out!Oh good, people are chiming in. I'm going back on calling him racist.
2194472833 Feb 02 11 06:35:12 PM bos politics re: RE: Socialism and the Highly Questionable 14th (Boring tripe)
He doesn't know how. Brevity to him is impossible, because he chooses to be esoteric about the things that "support" his argument, and glib with the things that disprove it.
The best part about the article is that he wants me to care about these historic people and their "loose" connection to the 14th amendment, or how socialism then is just the same as it is now, in black and white terms, as if ideals of socialism don't change at all. As if it were called socialism then, and they all had contact with Karl Marx in the 1850's in Germany.
Hahaha, I just reread it and spotted this:
Marxist-minded professional South-hater Thaddeus Stevens was the prime mover behind the 14th Amendment. Up until that amendment you had been considered a citizen of the United States by virtue of first being a citizen of the state of your residence. If you lived in Louisiana as I now do, you were a citizen of the US because you were first a citizen of Louisiana. The 14th Amendment turned that on its head, making your prime citizenship a national citizenship and your state citizenship became of only secondary importance.
This says a lot about the author he stole this from. What is it with Louisiana and producing neo-confederates? I bet the author was around during re-segregation, fully supporting it.
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Instead of pasting in this boring windbag tripe, why don't you just type four or five sentences and make whatever your point is.
Moron!
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Socialism and the Highly Questionable 14th Amendment http://www.citizensforaconstitutionalrepublic.com/benson_Jr3-26-10.html
Moral decline, one of the main fruits of apostasy, is always accompanied by a decline in the level of personal responsibility. However, just because responsibility is neglected does not mean that it is eliminated. If a formerly responsible people decide to abdicate their responsibilities and to adopt a “Let George (the state) do it attitude, then rest assured that ”George, or Honest Abe, or Obama will most assuredly do it and the people will live to regret what they do. If you like Obama’s new “health care reform” package go to the Holy Scriptures and read First Samuel, chapter 8.
After the War of Northern Aggression, as federal power mushroomed, the states lost power (one of the real reasons for the war). Now, in these latter years of insanity we seem to be living in, many state governors, in order to maintain their popularity with a jaded electorate that wants everything done for them, have jumped on the “federal funds bandwagon” and many state governors have spent much time running to Washington for "their fair share" of the collectivist federal pie. This has had the effect of turning the states into mere vassals of Washington (exactly as Abraham Lincoln wanted). If conditions today are to be reversed, this has to cease!
After the War, what the Yankee/Marxist crowd in Washington sought to do, along with destroying the religious base of the South, was to destroy also its economic and political base. They would, therefore, forever end any Southern competition to the North, and they would also break the “rebellious spirit” of the South so that secession and nullification would never be considered again.
Marxist-minded professional South-hater Thaddeus Stevens was the prime mover behind the 14th Amendment. Up until that amendment you had been considered a citizen of the United States by virtue of first being a citizen of the state of your residence. If you lived in Louisiana as I now do, you were a citizen of the US because you were first a citizen of Louisiana. The 14th Amendment turned that on its head, making your prime citizenship a national citizenship and your state citizenship became of only secondary importance.
As he worked at crafting the 14th Amendment, one of those Stevens took advice from was Robert Dale Owen, son of the well-known English socialist Robert Owen, who founded a socialist community in New Harmony, Indiana in 1829. Robert Dale was every bit as much of a socialist as his daddy was. Yet this is where Stevens went for advice. Have you ever stopped to wonder why the “history” books never bothered to mention this? The answer is simple. They realize that you (for their purposes) are “better off” not knowing things like this. That way you can’t ask embarrassing questions.
If those in Congress were taking the advice of socialists in the mid-1860s (see the book “Red Republicans and Lincoln’s Marxists” published by iUniverse) then can we really be naive enough to believe the current historical drivel that tells us our problems in this country with socialism and communism did not begin until the 1930s or shortly before? Unfortunately, many patriotic types can. They have concocted, or been fed by our court historians, a storybook version of Abraham Lincoln and his preservation of the “glorious Union” and they like that pleasant fairy tale so much that they refuse to be confused with the facts.
Some comments from the site http://maine.patriot.com might be helpful here. This site notes: “The 14th Amendment was introduced into the U.S. House by Thaddeus Stevens, congressman from Pennsylvania and into the Senate by William Pitt Fessenden. But the language of the amendment was written by Robert Dale Owen who was a naturalized citizen from England. Robert Dale Owen’s father, Robert Owen, was the acknowledged father of British socialism. The two men that introduced the proposed amendment had both worked for Robert Owen’s communistic Harmony Society. In 1827, Robert Dale Owen founded ‘The Free Inquirer’ which was said to be a socialist publication. He was later elected to the Illinois legislature, served as ambassador to Italy and spent the end of his life devoted to abolitionism, socialism and spiritualism (talking with the dead).” So Robert Dale Owen had been, among other things, a member of the Illinois legislature. How very fitting!
This post ended up getting deleted a day later, probably because I was exposing his scam. I re-arranged the post to make it more readable.
2194725002 Feb 03 11 12:26:38 AM bos politics re:RE: 14th Amendment Birthright Citizenship
Most people regard this clause as self-explanitory, believing that to be "subject to the jurisdiction," all one has to do is to be within the territory of the United States. Thus they conclude that children of illegal aliens are obviously US citizens.
If I'm driving in Britain, I have to obey their traffic laws because I am WITHIN British jurisdiction. That doesn't make me a British SUBJECT.
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This is a TOTALLY fallacious analysis.
Anyone who is born within the jurisdiction of American authorities is SUBJECT to that authority and therefore qualifies as a citizen under the 14th, including the offspring of illegals.
The word "SUBJECT" in that case is an ADJECTIVE describing a QUALIFYING CONDITION.
This is ALTOGETHER DIFFERENT from the noun "SUBJECT" as you used it referring to a person's STATUS, such as your example of someone who is a SUBJECT of the British Crown.
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No offense, but you sound new at dealing with this spammer.2195460354 Feb 03 11 11:21:10 AM bos politics 3RE: 14th Amendment Birthright Citizenship
I admire your fresh rage at the logic behind the PACINLAW spammer. It's like mental palate cleanser to me. I once spent an evening researching all of his links a month or two ago, back when he posted pacinlaw.org and notmygovernment.us links, and I couldn't believe what I saw. I have never seen such a failure in understanding the 14th Amendment. I have also never seen such a failure in understanding Hegelian Dialectic, which used to be a common spam post. I was mentally speechless. If I were in a debate with him in high school debate class, and he pulled that 14th Amendment conspiracy theory bullshit on me, I wouldn't know how to respond. It's too stupid to comprehend, but it works on some people.
PACINLAW's objective is not to provide a solid legal argument against the 14th Amendment, no matter how much it seems to. Their objective is to make money by scamming people. It's the classic Sovereign Citizens/Redemption scam, but retooled somewhat. The organization provides a "service" in which one can correct their nationality to "state national" in order to regain "full rights" that they lost from the 14th Amendment. Like not being subject to federal laws, specifically federal taxes. It costs $450 per person, and $300 a year, not including other expenses like memberships, to be paid in BLANK MONEY ORDERS through the mail. However, if one took 5 minutes on the internet searching for "renouncing US citizenship", that person would know that "correcting nationality" is not procedurally possible, therefore, it's a scam. Most of the racism in PAC's scam is cleaned up, though the major point of 14th amendment conspiracy theories are based Christian Identity's belief that God gave the the white man supremacy over all other races.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sovereign_citizen_movement
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redemption_movement
Currently you have caught the spammer during remission, where he posts 14th amendment conspiracy theories, and links to other people who have no business in offering legal advice. I'm not sure if he believes that he can clean the slate this way, but he's trying.
The spammer who you are dealing with is probably named RJ Mills. I don't know how people found this out, maybe he slipped up and responded back to an email comment that was handled through Craigslist, and his email address gave away his name. If you want to email him directly, here it is: rjmillsbjkl@gmail.com. He has a Digg page that further implicates him. Digg went down for maintenance, but search for "RJ Mills pacinlaw" and it will come up 3rd or 4th result down. His thumbnail picture says it all, what a creep. I don't know what his problem is, if it's mental issues, or he's getting paid to spam, but don't expect an argument out of him unless you said something that really offended him. To him, volume of spam = dominating the argument. He does not provide any original thought to his spam and has only one kind of defense: an ad hominem attack of how the attacker is a "maintainer and deceiver" + mountain of spam.
The point of all of this is, keep your sanity. You can flag and move on, report to craigslist (appears ineffective), or troll him mercilessly. Don't argue with him.
I'm thinking of setting up a blog that hangs onto all of my effort posts, as Craigslist deletes posts after 7 days. The more negative shit on them, the less likely they are to get away with it. You may want to do this too. It will make reporting him to the FBI a lot easier.
Good luck, bro.
The point of all of this is, keep your sanity. You can flag and move on, report to craigslist (appears ineffective), or troll him mercilessly. Don't argue with him.
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I'm not really interested in the right winger's history as you are, only in his post that clearly conflated the adjective "subject" as in "subject to U.S. jurisdiction" to the noun "subject" as in "subject of the British Empire".
I pointed out the fallacy in case readers might be fooled by it, so of course I argued against it and will disregard your advice and continue to argue against fallacies here in CL as I have done for eight years.
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Yeah, good point. I wasn't too sure about you, it was 3am or so and your post seemed so innocent at the time. It was fresh - like splashing cold water on my face after an all night bender.
Say, since you have been on CL for 8 years, do you know exactly when the spammer started spamming this board? I started posting here in November '10, so I don't know.
Anyway, what ultimately made me give up on correcting his logic was over the Hegelian Dialectic. If the spammer had any knowledge of basic philosophy, he'd know that he fell into the same trap that Hegel knew about dialectics - garbage in = garbage out. His theses and antitheses were too broad to make such a synthesis. I called him out on it a few times, but I kept getting the same robo-reply about maintainers and deceivers. It wasn't nearly as fun as trolling him, so I stopped.
Postscript: Heh, the spammer is back to linking the pacinlaw tax defiance scam. Hardly a clean slate here, buddy.
The psychopath that put this blog up is really a scared little monkey... He has to entertain himself by fabricating things.
ReplyDeleteIt is said that a quality of an idiot is to speak without knowledge. There is plenty of it herein.